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Huge bug with Ataru Form

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

AcaciaDragon's Avatar


AcaciaDragon
01.25.2012 , 02:14 PM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by ManOSteal View Post
I think everyone tends to forget that at least by the wording of the talent when in blood frenzy you increase the chance to crit by 100% not that you have a 100% chance to crit when you have blood frenzy up. I have at least once had blood frenzy up and not crit with force scream. However whats really starting to tune up my damage is pumping crit as much as I can not so much surge or power but crit. for my carnage build I am mostly focused on strength, crit and endurance, with any surge I can pour in as a fourth stat. Basically to me carnage is a crit build.
Then you arent paying attention to your blood frenzy. 100% crit is 100% crit, whether its adding tot he base amount or not. My Force scream will always crit when blood frenzy is up, The only Time i have ever seen Scream not crit was when i was not paying attention and only thought I had a blood frenzy available, only to quickly remember, I have not used Massacre in awhile. Also there is like a 1 sec pause after blood frenzy ends before itll get reapplied even with spamming massacre. You just gotta pay attention to that little burning fist icon.

ManOSteal's Avatar


ManOSteal
01.25.2012 , 02:15 PM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by Tumri View Post
There's a lot you're misunderstanding.

1. If a tree has talents that increase your chance to crit how does additional crit gain value? It doesn't. Talents like "Bleedout" which increases crit damage cause crit to gain value. Carnage has a similar talent.

2. If Carnage's insta-crit mechanic causes power to gain value then wouldn't Annihilation's insta-crit mechanic also cause power to gain value?

3. There is a difference between "forms of damage" and "amount of damage". I proved Annihilation does more DPS. They both have similar percentages of their damage come from similar sources. Force Scream and Ataru Form are Carnage's equivalent to Bleeds.

4. Both trees have a 30% crit damage talent(although Annihl's is broken). Both trees have force/internal damage that makes up a significant portion of their DPS(exact values are hard to know at this point). I don't understand why you think they have vastly different stat weights.
tumri have you tried stacking a whole bunch of crit chance in the carnage spec try it out I want to see what numbers you get for sacrificing everything you can into crit chance. Not even trying to say I am right wit this, but if your in a position where you can test this out I would like to see your number crunch on it.
ị█ị██████iiΘịị█ị_|\███████████DAMN THE MAN SAVE THE EMPIRE███████████)

Hizoka's Avatar


Hizoka
01.25.2012 , 02:15 PM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by Tumri View Post
My guild's GM made a video pre-launch explaining theorycraft basics for Tormonger. Watch it. It's impossible to argue with you two when you can't even understand how things work. I'm not going to argue against your "feelings". It's becoming very tiring and I'm starting to not make sense as I try and explain the same thing 10 different ways hoping you somehow get it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8UtNLGn-7A
you cannot "argue" with math. But you do not understand the math so there is no point in talking to you about it.


Sorry but inately crit is onyl good to a certain point. with this game and with Marauders it gets less valuble after 25% because of 5% from IAs and with the 100% abilities. Sorry you do not grasp that but it is a mathmatical FACT.

Math does not lie, it cannot be incorrect (when done right).

Tumri's Avatar


Tumri
01.25.2012 , 02:17 PM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by Hizoka View Post
you cannot "argue" with math. But you do not understand the math so there is no point in talking to you about it.
Stop pretending to be using math. You're going off gut feeling. Show me your "math" if it exists.
Wrath
Pre-Launch Hardcore Guild that has moved on to better games.
www.wrathnation.com

ManOSteal's Avatar


ManOSteal
01.25.2012 , 02:19 PM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by AcaciaDragon View Post
Then you arent paying attention to your blood frenzy. 100% crit is 100% crit, whether its adding tot he base amount or not. My Force scream will always crit when blood frenzy is up, The only Time i have ever seen Scream not crit was when i was not paying attention and only thought I had a blood frenzy available, only to quickly remember, I have not used Massacre in awhile. Also there is like a 1 sec pause after blood frenzy ends before itll get reapplied even with spamming massacre. You just gotta pay attention to that little burning fist icon.
I do watch the little fist it's where the bulk of my damage comes from I only throw my scream when I see that fist show up and i have done that and still hit for my normal amount of damage. also to be on topic with the original part of this thread yeah I noticed this on the world boss for DK good to know I just need to clip into his chest to proc ataru hits.
ị█ị██████iiΘịị█ị_|\███████████DAMN THE MAN SAVE THE EMPIRE███████████)

Hizoka's Avatar


Hizoka
01.25.2012 , 02:26 PM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by Tumri View Post
Stop pretending to be using math. You're going off gut feeling. Show me your "math" if it exists.
lol its basics. The more crit you have the less good it is. Its a diminishing stat no matter what by its vary nature.



ok i'll try to make it simple.


25% base crit. add 5% to IA buff that equals 30, 15% from juyo form that makes your dots have a 45% chance to crit. The more crit you have the less gain you get because you lready crit so often.


Crit is a very very good stat when you have a small amount as it will greatly increase you damage however the higher you get the less return you see because you are already critting more often.


Once you crit every other dot tick roughly crit because a useless stat as you need greater amounts to see any kind of return, in this game you cannot get enough to see that return.


Its has always been that way and will always be that way because it is MATH. it is not a feeling its a fact.

AcaciaDragon's Avatar


AcaciaDragon
01.25.2012 , 02:28 PM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by Tumri View Post
Stop pretending to be using math. You're going off gut feeling. Show me your "math" if it exists.
The video you linked was very outdated and flawed(based on ideas from wow?), the tooltips show the current damage you will do after all other stats are applied. Try it, go look at the damage your vicous slash does and then take off a piece of gear and watch it go down. The tooltip is accurate. Mine says 1200 damage and i typically do 800-1200 damage per hit(after the targets defenses are calculated obviously)

Brickabrack's Avatar


Brickabrack
01.25.2012 , 02:40 PM | #58
Hey ProjectAwesome thanks for bringing this bug up. I never knew about it but yours is one of the more constructive and helpful posts I've seen in a while. No flaming, no hate, just the facts. Love it. I wish more people behaved like that on these forums. And surprise surprise! BioWare responded to it, probably for those very reasons.

Good job
If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

Playing Since 12-13-2011

Tumri's Avatar


Tumri
01.25.2012 , 02:52 PM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by Hizoka View Post
lol its basics. The more crit you have the less good it is. Its a diminishing stat no matter what by its vary nature.



ok i'll try to make it simple.


25% base crit. add 5% to IA buff that equals 30, 15% from juyo form that makes your dots have a 45% chance to crit. The more crit you have the less gain you get because you lready crit so often.


Crit is a very very good stat when you have a small amount as it will greatly increase you damage however the higher you get the less return you see because you are already critting more often.


Once you crit every other dot tick roughly crit because a useless stat as you need greater amounts to see any kind of return, in this game you cannot get enough to see that return.


Its has always been that way and will always be that way because it is MATH. it is not a feeling its a fact.
That's not math. That's you deciding that 25% crit is the magical end of crit's usefulness.

"get the less return you see because you are already critting more often."

First half of this: Yes

Second half of this: No.

"Because you already crit more often" is an incredibly ignorant thing to say.

---

I'm done. I've decided that this is no longer worth my time.
Wrath
Pre-Launch Hardcore Guild that has moved on to better games.
www.wrathnation.com

pangwl's Avatar


pangwl
01.25.2012 , 02:55 PM | #60
Why are we going about +crit vs. +power?

Isn't +Accuracy rating the better of the two?
Arradan | Jedi Sentinel | Republic Centurion