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Sith Assassins Are Bad for DPS Raiding

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sith Inquisitor > Assassin
Sith Assassins Are Bad for DPS Raiding

jtkitche's Avatar


jtkitche
01.24.2012 , 12:20 PM | #1
I have heard a lot of discussion around this, that for DPS in any of the operation Hard Mode/Nightmare Modes that Sith Assassins fail compared to Operative DPS and for raid purposes a Maurader would be selected over operative and operative over assasin, but maurader over both in most cases due to the threat/dmg reduction buff they can create on MT or MH.

Thoughts? My best bud has rolled a Sith Assassin and I want to incorporate him into our raids, but don't want to gimp the group either...

Please shed some light here on the DPS builds by Sith Assassins and why they should be viable for Raiding compared to their other Melee DPS counterparts the Operative/Maurader/Juggernaught

-Thy (Hedarr Soongh - Dark Souls)

Natarii's Avatar


Natarii
01.24.2012 , 01:29 PM | #2
If they are behind at all, it is not by much. No one actually knows how much 'dps' anyone else is actually doing right now. With decent gear, any dps class can be useful in most situations. Don't let the naysayers and trolls deter you from including a solid player in your operations group. Remember, player skill often outweighs class shortcomings, if there are any. A good player in bad gear will be more useful than a bad player with stellar gear. A good player on the most difficult rotations toon will be better than a bad player on the faceroll toon. Again, evaluate the player - class mechanics are ever changing. It's not wise to alienate good players simply because they aren't playing the flavor of the month.
Dark Lord of Altaholics Anonymous
Sword of Ajunta Pall - Sith Empire

swiftdh's Avatar


swiftdh
01.24.2012 , 01:47 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by jtkitche View Post
I have heard a lot of discussion around this, that for DPS in any of the operation Hard Mode/Nightmare Modes that Sith Assassins fail compared to Operative DPS and for raid purposes a Maurader would be selected over operative and operative over assasin, but maurader over both in most cases due to the threat/dmg reduction buff they can create on MT or MH.

Thoughts? My best bud has rolled a Sith Assassin and I want to incorporate him into our raids, but don't want to gimp the group either...

Please shed some light here on the DPS builds by Sith Assassins and why they should be viable for Raiding compared to their other Melee DPS counterparts the Operative/Maurader/Juggernaught

-Thy (Hedarr Soongh - Dark Souls)
i recorded a few videos of karagga palace bosses on 8 man hard mode and alot of people have said my dps is low because they do 5k+ crits where my assassin does 3.3k max crit, i have 4/5 columi stalker armor with the t2 pve weapon.

so yea i defo think assassins need a dps boost, but at the present moment of time im leveling a sorc just so i can raid with decent damage as it doesnt feel like my assassin contributes much to raids
Wipeout
Sith Assassin
Star Wars: The Old Republic Collector Edition

Natarii's Avatar


Natarii
01.24.2012 , 01:57 PM | #4
Comparing based on the fact that you do 3.3K crits and someone else does 5K crits is pretty limitted information. If you're doing those 3.3K crits twice as fast as their 5k crits, then you're essentially doing more dmg. You have to include speed and overall dmg output. Alot of lower dmg hits over the same period of time that someone else laid down 1 big one balances out. Again, until we have any measure of actual numbers, this is all speculation and scare-tactic.
Dark Lord of Altaholics Anonymous
Sword of Ajunta Pall - Sith Empire

SexualZergling's Avatar


SexualZergling
01.24.2012 , 01:57 PM | #5
I haven't raided yet as i'm level 45 but I'd think that a Darkness spec assasin would be pivotal to a raid environment.
  • We can shield, lowering threat by 25% to a single target.
  • Spike, or Electrocute add 9% damage from all sources if you go 3/3 Nerve Wracking.
  • Whither decreases damage dealt by a massive 5%
  • Dark charge's discharge decreases accuracy.

Sin's do a ton of Internal damage, which I hear is rarely resisted. And have Tons of survival tools. Again, I'm not yet a raider and might be talking out my ***, but a 9% Raid buff to damage roughly every 45 seconds seems like a hell of a reason to have a Darkness Assassin in your raid.

Dravinix's Avatar


Dravinix
01.24.2012 , 02:10 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by SexualZergling View Post
I haven't raided yet as i'm level 45 but I'd think that a Darkness spec assasin would be pivotal to a raid environment.
  • We can shield, lowering threat by 25% to a single target.
  • Spike, or Electrocute add 9% damage from all sources if you go 3/3 Nerve Wracking.
  • Whither decreases damage dealt by a massive 5%
  • Dark charge's discharge decreases accuracy.

Sin's do a ton of Internal damage, which I hear is rarely resisted. And have Tons of survival tools. Again, I'm not yet a raider and might be talking out my ***, but a 9% Raid buff to damage roughly every 45 seconds seems like a hell of a reason to have a Darkness Assassin in your raid.
To that,No sin is going to be dps in dark charge,which is of course required to shield someone.dps'ing in dark charge not only is going to lower your damage bonus by 5% right off the bat,but you're going to be a liability because you're going to produce massive amounts of threat with dark charge on.Pull a bosses attention at the wrong time because of that and you just wiped you're raid.As you know Dark charge,and deep darkness tree,is a tank charge/tree,not dps.

Most bosses are immune to electrocute and spike.So any mobs that the 9% extra dmg would matter on,are immune to the effect anyways.

I'll give you wither and discharge with dark charge,but again.....MASSIVE THREAT caused by these abilities isn't worth the risk.In this instance,the OP is talking about being a dps sin in a raid.If you are deep enough in darkness to have wither.....you're not a dps...you're a tank.

I won't argue how our dps stacks up against other classes right now,because we don't actually know without combat logs and parses.I will however say that we are definitely lacking group utility in our dps specs.There's basically nothing we bring as far as in combat group utility.Sure,we can sap a mob from stealth,but that's obviously worthless (in most cases) on a boss fight.Other than that,we've basically got nothing but damage to give,and how much of that we give is even suspect.

deserttfoxx's Avatar


deserttfoxx
01.24.2012 , 02:37 PM | #7
As a raid tank in full rakata, i can say the only dps ive had to guard in a raid has been the sin, then again i group with a sin who isnt retarded.

Know your class, the sin isnt weak, it just attracts weak players.
"Soon they will know my name, recognize my face, and understand what it means to be in the presence of true power." - Imitatio Dei Captain Sakari Foxx , Sith Juggernaut (Level 50)

Scryer's Avatar


Scryer
01.24.2012 , 05:04 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by deserttfoxx View Post
As a raid tank in full rakata, i can say the only dps ive had to guard in a raid has been the sin, then again i group with a sin who isnt retarded.

Know your class, the sin isnt weak, it just attracts weak players.
Agreed.

I don't mean to be mean here, but the amount of horrible Assassins outweigh the good ones, at least the ones I've seen and played with so far.

People see the double-bladed lightsaber when choosing their AC and are instantly attracted to it, without bothering to look at play style or end-game expectations. Similar effect with Marauders, Mercenaries and Snipers.
PCGAMER

Mint Imperials

Saberolson's Avatar


Saberolson
01.24.2012 , 05:40 PM | #9
Assassins are very gear dependent. Once they get to higher gear lvls, their damage starts to scale much higher. The higher their crit gets, the better surge gets, which can make them hit much harder.

Also, from what I have been reading, a madness hybrid spec does extremly high damage for end game PVE, but I think most sins stick with pure deception.

The biggest problem this class faces is a case of mistaken identity. Everyone thinks they are burst damage rogues. Ops are the rogues. We are the shamans/pallies. Yes we stealth and a backstab, but we have no alpha stealth strike, and our backstab should only be used on a proc of duplicity. The rest of the time we are shocking, dischargine, and voltaic slashing(deception) or raze/death field(madness). If you really look at those abilities, you will see that they are very similar to a shaman. Shock is self explanitory. Voltaic slash is just like the old stormstrike, chain shock talant unleashes a second shock for half damage(mirrors an old elemntal shaman talant that unleashed a second lightning bolt for half damage) discharge unleashes the proc you have on your weapon, ect. Hell a madness sin is like a crazy mashup of a rogue, shaman, warlock, and shadow priest. We are def not rogues. We have some burst damage, but are not the burst class. Ops are the rogue/burst class.

My whole point is that people need to realize just how different this class really plays. And if you take the time to learn how to play it, it can shine on all fronts. Its gets a bad rap because so many poor players are playing it. Inquisitor is by far the most played class imp side, and its the most complex class of the lot. This leads to a lot of poor play, making us look much worse than we really should.

Kastinar's Avatar


Kastinar
02.02.2012 , 02:44 PM | #10
I play an Assassin at 50 with moderate gear and I completely regret it.

Assassins have no raid utility and next to no damage, and the only attacks Assassins have are Thrash/VS, Shock, and Discharge. Everything else is self utility that benefits no one else.

Assassins need to be viable to bring to raids.