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What we need is more openers rather than everything in one

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Scoundrel / Operative
What we need is more openers rather than everything in one

MrContact's Avatar


MrContact
01.23.2012 , 12:11 PM | #1
So Scrapper (Concealment) is getting nerfed, and I am afraid there isn’t much we can do. However I do also believe that heavy burst + the knockdown in a single ability is a little bit OP. So what about splitting it into more abilities? It will raise the skillcap for the class, since the player has to choose which one to use rather than sticking with one, thus preventing the preset rotation. It’s also a good opportunity to get the stealthbar we need. BioWare stop slacking!

What I Propose is to split it into 3 different abilities:
• A burst attack
• A Knockdown/stun
• A Dot
All 3 should ofc grant UH (TA)

The Burst Attack

The burst attack would just be the untalented version of Shoot First (Hidden Strike). Might need some number tweaking but it should still stay as a solid burst.

The Knockdown
The Knockdown should replace the K.O. (Jarring Strike) talent, and a rearrangement of the talents might be needed. Other than knocking the target down, it should also increase damage taken by around 20%. So the ability would be something like this:

Smackdown (just a name I made up for the scrapper version)
Energy: 15
Range: 4m
Strikes an unsuspecting target, causing it to land flat on its face for 3 seconds and takes 20% increased damage for 5 seconds.

So the ability itself doesn’t do any dmg, but it leaves the target vulnerable to other attacks. The numbers might need some tweaking so it isn’t possible to cause more burst with this ability than with Shoot First. However it will be a great way to finish of any strong targets that is under fire from your allies. Having problems killing a guarded healer? No problem, call the Scrapper. It also gives the scrapper a strong role in Huttball as ball handler killer. Which is needed since most of the other classes got some abilities that are very powerful in Huttball. Troopers/BHs can pull enemies while Sages/Sorceress can pull allies. Knights/Warriors got Forceleap and many classes got knockbacks. From a PVE perspective it will also be a great supportability for the group.

The Dot
The Dirty fighting (Lethality) tree could use a nasty dot as an opener, but it should be viable for all smugglers/agents who needs an opener for sustained dps, and the dot should be preferred if the target lives long enough for the full, or almost full, duration.


Different openers really opens up for a more versatile and fun class, while silencing the nerf callers. I hope you support my idea so we can make our class even more enjoyable.
Mr Contact's MMO Blog
Check it out: http://thecontactmmo.blogspot.com/
Now with a Scoundrel/Ops pvp spec collection

DunsparrowSolo's Avatar


DunsparrowSolo
01.23.2012 , 12:14 PM | #2
Yep, thats what other games do. Shoot First is a flawed design, so to fix it, they don't change the design, but instead ruin the entire class.

In WoW:

Cheap Shot = Stun opener
Ambush = High damage opener
Garrote = DoT opener
Expose Armor = armor reduction

In SWTOR:

Cheap Shot + Ambush + Garrote + armor pen = Shoot First
The Dunsparrow Pledge
1. I will never sign off by saying "May the Force be with you"
2. I will never accuse my counterpart class of being overpowered
3. I will never use a lightsaber design in my sig

Drakeco's Avatar


Drakeco
01.23.2012 , 12:34 PM | #3
+1 :d

ajsbrejker's Avatar


ajsbrejker
01.23.2012 , 01:02 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by DunsparrowSolo View Post
Yep, thats what other games do. Shoot First is a flawed design, so to fix it, they don't change the design, but instead ruin the entire class.

In WoW:

Cheap Shot = Stun opener
Ambush = High damage opener
Garrote = DoT opener
Expose Armor = armor reduction

In SWTOR:

Cheap Shot + Ambush + Garrote + armor pen = Shoot First
Touché

ajsbrejker's Avatar


ajsbrejker
01.23.2012 , 01:13 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by MrContact View Post
So Scrapper (Concealment) is getting nerfed, and I am afraid there isn’t much we can do. However I do also believe that heavy burst + the knockdown in a single ability is a little bit OP. So what about splitting it into more abilities? It will raise the skillcap for the class, since the player has to choose which one to use rather than sticking with one, thus preventing the preset rotation. It’s also a good opportunity to get the stealthbar we need. BioWare stop slacking!

What I Propose is to split it into 3 different abilities:
• A burst attack
• A Knockdown/stun
• A Dot
All 3 should ofc grant UH (TA)

The Burst Attack

The burst attack would just be the untalented version of Shoot First (Hidden Strike). Might need some number tweaking but it should still stay as a solid burst.

The Knockdown
The Knockdown should replace the K.O. (Jarring Strike) talent, and a rearrangement of the talents might be needed. Other than knocking the target down, it should also increase damage taken by around 20%. So the ability would be something like this:

Smackdown (just a name I made up for the scrapper version)
Energy: 15
Range: 4m
Strikes an unsuspecting target, causing it to land flat on its face for 3 seconds and takes 20% increased damage for 5 seconds.

So the ability itself doesn’t do any dmg, but it leaves the target vulnerable to other attacks. The numbers might need some tweaking so it isn’t possible to cause more burst with this ability than with Shoot First. However it will be a great way to finish of any strong targets that is under fire from your allies. Having problems killing a guarded healer? No problem, call the Scrapper. It also gives the scrapper a strong role in Huttball as ball handler killer. Which is needed since most of the other classes got some abilities that are very powerful in Huttball. Troopers/BHs can pull enemies while Sages/Sorceress can pull allies. Knights/Warriors got Forceleap and many classes got knockbacks. From a PVE perspective it will also be a great supportability for the group.

The Dot
The Dirty fighting (Lethality) tree could use a nasty dot as an opener, but it should be viable for all smugglers/agents who needs an opener for sustained dps, and the dot should be preferred if the target lives long enough for the full, or almost full, duration.


Different openers really opens up for a more versatile and fun class, while silencing the nerf callers. I hope you support my idea so we can make our class even more enjoyable.
I couldn't agree with you more, the problem with your theory/idea is that it ressembles to much from WoW, and as we all know, BioWare will do everything not to follow in WoW's footsteps, which is really childish, nevertheless, they wont.

MrContact's Avatar


MrContact
01.23.2012 , 01:22 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by ajsbrejker View Post
I couldn't agree with you more, the problem with your theory/idea is that it ressembles to much from WoW, and as we all know, BioWare will do everything not to follow in WoW's footsteps, which is really childish, nevertheless, they wont.
Yeah can't deny that. But getting the discussion going is more important for me. However I would really like to have a opener that boosts the potential of the team.
Mr Contact's MMO Blog
Check it out: http://thecontactmmo.blogspot.com/
Now with a Scoundrel/Ops pvp spec collection

Lauriet's Avatar


Lauriet
01.23.2012 , 02:11 PM | #7
I've just started playing the Dirty Fighting tree (As my Scrapper is getting the nerf bat right in the nads.) and I would really love a DOT opener. Maybe to balance it a bit more you could reduce the damage that Wounding Shots does per DOT active on the target, I don't know though (I don't really crunch the numbers in PvP, it's just something I love to do)

I think that this is an excellent and well thought out idea and a plausible fix for Scoundrels.

Metalmac's Avatar


Metalmac
01.23.2012 , 03:34 PM | #8
Something needs to be done quickly by the Dev team. I can not believe they will leave us this broken. Half of our mechanics are broken or do not work. Like Back Blast is not on cool down and I push it and I just stand there doing nothing it does not go off as then it says "Must be behind target" but I am behind him and Dirty Kick him and make sure I am exactly behind him then hit Back Blast and again says "Must be behind target". Then give up and use Quick Shot instead. So guess what the animation for Back Blast goes off.
My main gripe is I can not even kill targets that I see other class eazy mode do or watch another class kill a elite and take almost no damage. I put on my Dodge and Shield at same time and get one shotted by the same elite the Jedi just killed taking less then 10% damage yet my gear is much better.
This is crazy the they have dropped the ball with testing before nerf.

Tamanous's Avatar


Tamanous
01.23.2012 , 05:03 PM | #9
I completely agree.

There needs to be openers that sync with other builds. I am a huge hybrid fan and run a medicine/concealment hybrid (now becoming more popular I just noticed since nerf) and I truly wish I had a more utility opener or perhaps a nice dot as burst isn't my main goal when playing a combat style medic.

If massive burst damage is the issue and reason for the nerf then ... where the hellz are our other options for those never wanting a large damage opener?

MrContact's Avatar


MrContact
01.24.2012 , 10:47 AM | #10
I still don't belive how the current design with a heavy burst + a talented 3 sec knockdown made it to release as the only choice. And Shadows get the exact same thing just weaker

Its poor design and reflects laziness. Especially when there isn't a stealthbar either. The design is pretty flawed and it seems like they just added stealth to scoundrels and shadows for the sake of having some stealth classes.
Mr Contact's MMO Blog
Check it out: http://thecontactmmo.blogspot.com/
Now with a Scoundrel/Ops pvp spec collection