Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer

Why Endgame is lackluster, and what Bioware should do.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Why Endgame is lackluster, and what Bioware should do.

texasfanboy's Avatar

01.23.2012 , 01:55 PM | #31
NM mode Ops actually feel slightly easier than the HM flashpoints. Enrage timers are a lot more forgiving, at the very least.

I'm not sure if this is intentional or not, but I can see a logic path that gets to this point on purpose.

Players who aren't familiar with MMOs may want to dive straight into Ops after hitting the level cap. From a plot-centric point of view...why go back to Black Talon? You took care of that after you left for Drommand Kaas. The story continues into the Ops, not back into the Flashpoints. Since this is a story-focused game, this is sensible -- it's just the polar opposite of how MMO veterans are used to handling progression.

We're used to Level Cap > HM dungeons > Normal Raids > HM Raids. If you follow that path in this game, you tread water since HM Flashpoints and NM Ops drop the same loot, and the difficulty curve feels backwards.

My guess is that there are two progression paths.

The Casual path is Level Cap > Normal Ops
The Hardcore path is Level Cap > HM Flashpoints > HM Raids, skipping normal Ops entirely

The problem is not that this deliniation exists, it's that they completely failed to tell us it exists. So we form our new guilds in this new game, we tell people once they hit the level cap to farm HM FPs for gear so we can do Ops....and find out we'd wasted our time in FPs, because in the absence of this information, we default to the path we already know.

ninjashadowdark's Avatar

01.23.2012 , 02:00 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by FuzzyMuffins View Post
Might sound crazy but One mode for everyone, and hard encounters would make this game way better. Like in rift, it didnt have much going for it but if you raided you got a good run. Hammerknell took around a month for the top guild to clear and even the first two raids were difficult to do without the right gear/tactics. I remember going into Hammerknell and the newer raiders still having a little trouble on the easier raids 6months down the road.

I have yet to raid, but SWTOR is a themepark and from what i heard over mummble and seen. When the ride ends it really does end. New raid took 1 day to clear? lol Great for the more casual crowd for sure.
i could agree with this but those who new to the game need normal mode like my wife she never raid before so it helps her learn the game better :/.

Veala's Avatar

01.23.2012 , 02:01 PM | #33
Excellent post.

TMar's Avatar

01.23.2012 , 03:54 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by FuzzyMuffins View Post
The raiding came out slowly, I never raided much in WoW, but i assume it was good raiding Otherwise why would all the guilds stick around to do so?

I hate the argument, the game just came out, because it is 2012. Companies know what we as consumers want and they need to deliver. Instead of scamming us and being held up by people saying it will get better.

The first raids were easy and bugged, wait till 1.1.. 1.1 came out finished in one night. It was in development for almost a year.

Even rift had a hard raid instance and 3 weeks later made another raid instance just as hard. None of it was cleared the first week or two and only the hardcore guilds, 5 days a week raiding, were clearing the content at a steady pace. I use rift as an example because it was the most recent MMO launch.
That is the stupidest argument I keep hearing, it's 2012! So what? Let's say I want to start collecting coins, people have been doing that for over a 1000 years. Lets say my father has been collecting coins for 60 years, by your logic I should have all the same coins from the start as my father has after 60 years, it's 2012! It a tried and true hobby people have been doing for thousands of years, it should be easy.
There is no suggesting, there is only trolling
There is no discussing, there is only trolling
There is one constant, there is trolling
****All for a Tor server named Bria.****

Maoxx's Avatar

01.23.2012 , 04:20 PM | #35
While I did enjoy BC, the whole make 2 groups to farm this 8/10 man THEN move to the big raids, just flat out doesn't work well at all. I saw too many guilds get splintered trying to gear up to handle Gruul, because one group wasn't quite as good as the other. Which brings up another point. Do we force newcomers to go through all the old raids just to gear up to make the new ones?

Qcto's Avatar

01.23.2012 , 05:30 PM | #36
Just hire the Ulduar team from wow (ICC was the next best). Then you get awesome endgame. I like how hard modes were something you did in fight and not the toggle stuff. I havnt done the new karaggas palace stuff but so far SOA is the best boss. Why? Because stuff actually happens in the fight.

Check this out for a fight with a bunch of stuff to learn and master. Made the fight quite fun.
The Hitchens Legacy | 50 Operative | 40 Mercenary | Daragon Trail

Obbu's Avatar

01.23.2012 , 06:03 PM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by The_Pro View Post
Itemization is pretty bad. There is essentially no choice of gear for each class. This is bad because it goes against the whole goal of modding. Everyone raiding at a high level runs around in full "rakata"-there is hardly any choice of stats that the player can partake in. This is even more true, considering modding is the only way to alter gear (anything like enchanting from WoW is absent), and honestly, modding hasn't done its job at all, considering the highest level mods are already in the Rakata gear.

The solution should be something like this:
Make other items besides tier items drop in ops, and give them diverse mods. Diverse mods are essential to this game, because currently, all kinds of gear custemizatoln are absent.
Bioware could also do something better with Augments. Maybe add more augment slots, and make augments more fun. Maybe give weapons a special augment slot, which can accept "fun" augments, which gives the weapon a cool proc or something. Bioware has a lot of options here, but the current system leaves no room for customization, optimization, or anything else really. If Bioware wanted gear to be more flexible, theyve failed.
Good set bonuses will, unfortunately always dictate what everyone wears - if you want diversity, you need to provide individual alternates, or an alternate set which provide statistical equality, or even advantage (mitigated by rarity).

I'm a big believer that there needs to be choice within a given spec.

Currently for one spec (lets say medic):

Medic Set
Medic Subpar Non-set items
Medic craftable subpar drops that raise in value if you crit the craft (augment slot)

If a Set is going to be the 'king' set, then they need at least two alternate 'king' sets per spec.

Crit/Surge Medic set Vs Alacrity/Power Vs Cunning or whatever

But I am personally far more enticed by a rare non-set upgrade than the pokemon sets a la wow/diablo.

Mynden's Avatar

01.23.2012 , 11:31 PM | #38
If you're looking for hard modes being hard switch to 16 man. It's ridiculous how much more difficult it is compared to 8. Protip bioware, you can't just double the amount of damage an attack does because it's 16. we don't get double health.
Use the link for free stuff (including a server transfer)

Rosenwas's Avatar

01.24.2012 , 12:00 AM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by jamiem View Post

karazhan > gruul > magtheridon's lair > ssc > tk > mh > bt > sw was the best progression flow of any mmo i have played and the difficulty tuning was spot on.
this and so much this!!

SoraQuasar's Avatar

01.24.2012 , 06:31 AM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by The_Pro View Post
Bioware: even if you don't like the suggestions, something must be done to make endgame better, and fast. Maybe just release a statement, and tell us what you're thinking. Many raiders' attentions are waning, so this is very high priority.
I think they should give the pvp "fixing" a rest for now, people always gonna whine about that. but the PVE aspect, common, we are talking about programs and not other human players, its should be simple enough to just tune to the community voice [which like 95% say the same exact thing, unlike pvp] and give us what we need so we will continue playing and enjoing the game. and im not saying i will drop playing anytime soon, i do have faith in BW, but time is cruicial here, other players dont wait too long and you need to give them, us, a bone here and fast.

most of us wasting time on broken things, while you try to rebalance pvp, but common, the whiner voice of pvpers are much lauder then ours becasue they are facing other players, and there are more emotions in the play there.
we on the other hand, the PVE players, spend hours and hours in game trying to fight buggy npcs and then do dailyes for other hours, we spend SOOOOO much time ingame and not in the forums because its logical to just try again the npc and not just spend our time whining in the forums that X class is OP, and N class is UP, and the B class is soooo OP and blah blah blah instead of actually playing.
PVP gets frustrating much faster, and face it BW, it will take you ALOT of time, if ever, to setisfy the pvpers. but common, you CAN setisfy US, the PVEers much much much easily and more productivly for the long run.
It is a man's own mind, not his enemy or foe, that lures him to evil ways.
Dark Legion