No, You May Not Roll on Items for Another Class and Strip Out the Mods

STAR WARS: The Old Republic
No, You May Not Roll on Items for Another Class and Strip Out the Mods

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Setanian

01.27.2012 , 03:22 PM \| #1121
Quote: Originally Posted by Leiloni I know this thread is massive so no one is ever going to read my post, but I'll give my 2c anyway! I think anyone can roll "Greed" on anything they want. If they really want an item not for their class so they can use the skin or on an alt, then I'd say they ask in group chat first. Plenty of time to do that while it's rolling. If no one for that class truly needs it, then sure go for it. Personally some of the heavy armor for Mercs is pretty ugly so I've thought about getting some Sith heavy armor and remodding it. Although I'd only roll on somthing in a group setting if no one of that class needed it. No-one, but no-one, needs to 'ask' someone else to decide if they can roll need or not. It is entirely up to the individual to decide that for themselves. The sooner people realize that they have absolutely no say over how another player chooses to roll the dice, the better off we all will be.
What is that baseball bat in your signature? Oh! It's a lightsaber! How cute is that !

Calsetes

01.27.2012 , 03:23 PM \| #1122
Quote: Originally Posted by ferroz No, there is no need. Stop lying to your self. You don't NEED it. You WANT it. It goes to whoever wants it. Period. You don't get to dictate what want is valid and what isn't. Exactly! I get to dictate that, for I am Zod. KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!!!!!! .... Ok, so I'm giving up being serious in the thread now, since the argument / discussion / conference is basically "this is what we think," "you can't tell me what to do, this is what we think," "no, we just can do what we want in charge, and this is what we think." It's a back-and-forth that's just repeating itself. Go out, play the game, and you'll get what you deserve for playing how you play it. You screw people over, you'll get screwed over. You help people out, you'll get help. Not in every situation, mind you, but overall you'll get help or screwed as you do to others. Edit: Except for this one. Quote: Originally Posted by Setanian No-one, but no-one, needs to 'ask' someone else to decide if they can roll need or not. It is entirely up to the individual to decide that for themselves. The sooner people realize that they have absolutely no say over how another player chooses to roll the dice, the better off we all will be. You're right, nobody needs to ask before they hit it, just liek nobody needs to be warned that they're going to be booted. It's that "common courtesy" thing people talk about. Show a bit, and you'll get a bit. Show a lack of it, and you'll be shown a lack of it.
The average person thinks he isn't. -Anonymous

Eldren

01.27.2012 , 03:23 PM \| #1123
Quote: Originally Posted by DrunkenGundark And that's why I think it's so hard for people to agree on just how this sort of thing can be handled. I can very much see a "common good" when it comes to handling loot distribution. If a member of a party gets an upgrade to his equipment, that benefits me in the short term (for the remaining duration of the flashpoint or operation) it benefits him in the short term, it benefits the rest of the party in the short term. It benefits all of us in the long term if any of us ever run with that player again, and even if we don't, at the very least, we have one player out there who has better equipment than he had when he started. This is a good thing. I consider that a common good even if that's not something that can be strictly defined. So yes, I prioritize that over someone who is willing to let anyone roll for anything as their whim suits them and where we may end up with instances of people walking away with equipment that does not benefit them stats-wise/power-wise but that they took only for looks purposes. Usefulness takes precedence over vanity. Maybe that's a value you'd prefer I not be espousing because you don't like the idea that I'm putting my priorities in your face, but so be it. The system, as is, lends itself to this kind of abuse. And until people start being a bit more responsible with their use of the "Need" button, you're not going to convince me that there shouldn't be some more control hard-coded into the looting system, or at the very least, a more stringent community-based policy put in force on what's acceptable and what's not. DG, I see your point. I just don't agree with its practice. I could make arguments about "long term vs. short term" til we're both blue in the (digital) face (with these forums' color scheme, we already are...). I've even, in this thread and others like it, posited a fairly easy, if time-intensive on the front-end (from BioWare's perspective), solution: implement a companion loot box on each boss' loot table. It uses the same "smart loot" option that gives you gear for your class or your companions while you're out questing. Everyone rolls Need on it, and it generates one piece that's for one of the companions of the one who wins it. Might not be one they commonly use, but it solves the companion loot drama end of things. In conjunction, all loot in Flashpoints is then given a class requirement, and you're unable to roll Need if you aren't part of that class. More simply, they could do away with NBG, and go with Roll/Pass. With no tiered priorities in the loot rolls, it becomes simple: if you want it you roll, if you don't you pass. It's how NBG should work, but social conventions tacked onto a morally agnostic system are creating a functional reality much more complex. I don't prioritize, personally. If someone else hits "Need", that's all I need to know. If I want an equal chance at that item, I hit "Need" too. Sometimes I'm the first one who hits "need", so others are welcome to do so. I'm not upset if I lose, I'm happy if I win, and either way I continue on, or if we're at the end, I go my own way afterwards.
<character name> of the <name> legacy, of <guild name>, a <type> guild on <server> Referral link. Get a frack-ton of unlocks & help me out too! Click me for goodies.

VanorDM

01.27.2012 , 03:24 PM \| #1124
Quote: Originally Posted by Galbatorrix No, not my way. The right way. Yet, here you are deciding on what the 'right' way is. Quote: If an items drops that would upgrade their PC more than any of the other PCs, pass on it if they need it. So according to you, I can only need an item if it's more of an upgrade for me then someone else... The fact that it's an upgrade isn't good enough.

Maccaroth

01.27.2012 , 03:24 PM \| #1125
VanorDM - Exactly my thoughts. Back to the topic itself - from what I have seen that many people people are following specific pattern. Question is why. Answer is "to maximize the group efficiency". Since in the flashpoints only the players are present it's better to socially allow need for those who would make direct use of it to help the group now and in the future and maximize the chance that each class/character will be able to roll for "his" gear. If there are more than one character who can make use of the loot it's acceptable to allow them all need for it. If there is no need for character then many people take greed as default. To sell it, to give it to a companion and so on. Some ask if they can take need for a companion and I saw no one who had a problem with it. There are people who will take need for a companion over the player on any loot. While they are allowed - by the game mechanic - it can be viewed as socially unacceptable. Why? Because he can take need for anyone's gear as (s)he see fit. Social contract which allowed you to take need for "your" type of gear case to exist. It's obvious that this person is a danger to all people in the group and will be alienated. That's why people taking need for a companion before asking first (or discussing the loot rules) are not welcome by many people.
Spirit of the warrior is born through rejection and tears.

ispanolfw

01.27.2012 , 03:24 PM \| #1126
Quote: Originally Posted by Galbatorrix No, not my way. The right way. Ever heard the expression "He played the game the right way"? Same applies here. A FP is a group mission. You're part of a team. Play the right way and be fair to all. If an items drops that would upgrade their PC more than any of the other PCs, pass on it if they need it. That's good sportsmanship. Hence my statement, play the right way. Being right or wrong when it's not an absolute fact makes it an opinion. IE 1+1 using our base 10 numbering system is 2. If I just said 1+1 is 2, that would be opinion, since 1+1 in binary is 10. So, again, why do you get to decide?

Democratus

01.27.2012 , 03:25 PM \| #1127
Quote: Originally Posted by Galbatorrix No, not my way. The right way. Nice to hear you have a hot-line to the moral absolute. And here I thought it was only fanatics who claimed such. Quote: Ever heard the expression "He played the game the right way"? Same applies here. A FP is a group mission. You're part of a team. This much is right. I am part of the team. Me...the player. Not some bit of pixels. So if I - the player - feel that 'need' is the appropriate selection because an item will enhance my game play greatly...I select that button. Quote: Play the right way and be fair to all. As has been demonstrated time and again in this thread...this is the epitome of fair.

ferroz

01.27.2012 , 03:25 PM \| #1128
Quote: Originally Posted by Galbatorrix Looks don't you take down that gold in that quest you're trying to complete. Better stats do. Make sense? No ,that doesn't make any sense. That's not nearly as important as looking the way I want to look. And actually, gearing Tharan does as much to help me take down golds as any drops I could get out of flashpoints...
I love Penny arcade

Setanian

01.27.2012 , 03:25 PM \| #1129
Quote: Originally Posted by Galbatorrix No, not my way. The right way. Ever heard the expression "He played the game the right way"? Same applies here. A FP is a group mission. You're part of a team. Play the right way and be fair to all. If an items drops that would upgrade their PC more than any of the other PCs, pass on it if they need it. That's good sportsmanship. Hence my statement, play the right way. That's wholly your opinion. It is certainly not the 'right' way. Where is that stated? Can you link me to that? No. because you pulled it out of your pants. Your statement, is nothing more than your opinion and way of playing. I do not have to agree with it, not do you have any right to push it upon anyone else. You may certainly ask..
What is that baseball bat in your signature? Oh! It's a lightsaber! How cute is that !

Galbatorrix

01.27.2012 , 03:26 PM \| #1130
Quote: Originally Posted by VanorDM And if the item is an upgrade for him, why doesn't he have the right to roll on it? Actually some of these things are grounds to have a person or even a whole guild banned from the game, because it's a violation of the TOS/EULA. What? The enhancement mod gives them another 3 endurance over the other person getting pluses to every simple one of their stats? Be decent and pass on it. They need it more than you and you might actually feel good about it because you helped them obtain it. Helping others can be a good experience too. Some of you should try it some time.

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