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One thing I hope Bioware NEVER copies from WoW

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
One thing I hope Bioware NEVER copies from WoW

Hanscholo's Avatar


Hanscholo
01.22.2012 , 05:21 PM | #11
Yea man i agree OP...We used to battle our way through content, get through bosses the week before they were nerfed into faceroll territory. Imo, gear should outclass boss fights not nerfs. If you cant beat a boss with a great strat and good team work then eventually you will get there by outgearing it...Imo, that is the perfect way to balance raids, not by nerfing abilities, it cheapens the game greatly. When the game is never really ever beaten then you need to at least let people keep the quality of their achievement.

CitizenRaven's Avatar


CitizenRaven
01.22.2012 , 05:22 PM | #12
Just because some of you have the time and dedication and skill to defeat bosses when they are hard doesn't mean that the content shouldn't be made more accessible in the future. I don't have the time to put toward raiding because I have a life outside my games. If it weren't for WoW's Raid Finder tool, I would never have beat Deathwing. I like that Blizzard is finding ways for more than 10-20% of their "top players" (as you call them) to experience endgame content, and I feel that BioWare can learn from that example.

eGraced's Avatar


eGraced
01.22.2012 , 05:52 PM | #13
I personally have always liked the idea that content nerfs over time until most players can see it. However, I do think it would be nice to leave a mode for the original content, at the difficulty level it was originally launched. These 'original difficulty' raids could have some sort of non-game changing 'epeen' reward, like a pet, title, or slightly different looking (but same stat) gear drops. Casuals can then see all content, and hardcores get the challenge and prestige they are looking for. Then as close to everyone as possible is happy. (Some people are never happy, no matter what you do. The majority of them post "This game sucks because..." threads on the forums.)
A witty saying proves nothing.
Voltaire

Kazegiri's Avatar


Kazegiri
01.22.2012 , 07:00 PM | #14
Other TL;DR version:

Epeen is important to me and if it's taken away I have very little to be proud of.

I agree with you OP and I have a solution. Just prior to nerving content, Bioware should place a gigantic ***** icon over each character that cleared the content already (Display optional of course for those of us that have cleared the content but feel no need at all to show it off). That way when people see you they can immediately identify you as a person with incredibly fragile self-esteem who hides behind a thin veil of ultra-confidence.

Also: /me casually directs all this WoW discussion to blizzard's forums where people might still care about that game's content.

</sarcasm>

Manathayria's Avatar


Manathayria
01.23.2012 , 04:10 AM | #15
I guess, I've been on both sides of the fence regarding this.

There were fights in various games that I beat pre-nerfs. I was in one of the first guilds to down several bosses. We didn't get world first, but we were up there.

Then I got a job, I in essence - got a life that doesn't give me enough time to be hardcore on gaming. If I work a regular 12+ hours with a 16 or more when things go wrong, I'll be damned if I can get the time to dedicate to playing a game enough to be 'hardcore'. I dropped over to casual. Now... I still pay the same 15$ a month, I don't feel my enjoyment of the game should be less, or that I shouldn't be able to see that same end game content.... but I can't expect to be carried to it either. So either you need to make me an easier version - or dumb down the content....

It's not my fault if they decide it's better to dumb it down than give me an easier version.

They realize players like me are out there, and that's why they do it, because they don't want to lose us to the F2P games.

Discussion about LFD: to include cross server with server only option: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=279017 Also, for info on current tool: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=224095

stormie_sarge's Avatar


stormie_sarge
01.23.2012 , 07:35 AM | #16
IMHO if they nerf the normal modes it really doesnt matter. But for those of us in casual raiding guilds, it might take us a while because they are mostly composed of real life poeple that take a bit at a time to clear everything. Now I am not sure if there is a feature that allows for lockout extensions yet (been slowly working my way through the leveling process), but I am a husband, college engineering student, and entrepenuer. Life takes precedent over gaming and I can only do it a fraction of when I was a kiddy. But to have a nice insane challenge is something to shoot for, clearing a raid on normal is more like something cool to do, but the nightmare modes and such are the hard yet fun challenges.

I will echo the sentiment that there should be a near impossible raid setting that sits on a cliff mocking all. When I played WOW I loved hearing all the MURU horror stories that was told, and the reminiscing on Cthun. It creates a fun atmosphere that lets you know there is still something sinister out there in more then a story way.

Sumpfheini's Avatar


Sumpfheini
01.23.2012 , 07:58 AM | #17
It's already happening. EV Hardmode/Nightmare (except 1st Encounter) is stupidly easy (8 man raid at least, 16 seems to be harder but pointless).

Flashpoints can easily cleared with 3 people. And still Kids are crying about some other ones where you have to think a tiny little bit (Collicoid Wargames) .

I am no hardcore player but this game simply lacks challenge (stupid grind is no challenge) and everything is for free. Epics are for free and you don't even need a prequest or travel somewhere to enter the high tier operations: BORING!

PhoenixMatrix's Avatar


PhoenixMatrix
01.23.2012 , 08:03 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Sumpfheini View Post
It's already happening. EV Hardmode/Nightmare (except 1st Encounter) is stupidly easy (8 man raid at least, 16 seems to be harder but pointless).

Flashpoints can easily cleared with 3 people. And still Kids are crying about some other ones where you have to think a tiny little bit (Collicoid Wargames) .

I am no hardcore player but this game simply lacks challenge (stupid grind is no challenge) and everything is for free. Epics are for free and you don't even need a prequest or travel somewhere to enter the high tier operations: BORING!
Until there's a revolution in MMO design, or the big MMOs start taking ideas from the better designed, but less marketed MMOs out there, there's no such thing as "challenge" in an MMO.

The only challenge in a game like SWTOR or WoW, is getting X amount of people who don't "derp" all day, and getting them to listen to you instead of going to the bathroom everytime one comes back and being alt tabbed while you're trying to regroup.

Once you have 8-16-(whatever amount your current MMO allows) people who actually stare at the screen and read/listen to instructions and/or on vent not watching TV, everything tossed at you is trivial, because all it is is hitting buttons at the right time, Rockband style. Even worse if you have add-ons, as all it is is reacting to things quickly (again, Rockband style), and anyone who has played action games for a year or two can do it.

So what we need is for big names to stop copying each other and look at smaller name games for ideas. Then we'll have challenges, instead of having "push button at right time!" all day long.

Sumpfheini's Avatar


Sumpfheini
01.23.2012 , 08:05 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by CitizenRaven View Post
Just because some of you have the time and dedication and skill to defeat bosses when they are hard doesn't mean that the content shouldn't be made more accessible in the future. I don't have the time to put toward raiding because I have a life outside my games. If it weren't for WoW's Raid Finder tool, I would never have beat Deathwing. I like that Blizzard is finding ways for more than 10-20% of their "top players" (as you call them) to experience endgame content, and I feel that BioWare can learn from that example.
The point here is IN THE FUTURE. Right now content is already that easy with an average playtime of 8 hours a week you can clear all FPs and Operations on Hardmode without any effort.
If people are too bad to handle the content then they should not get it the easy way for a long time until the average gear level makes it possible for them. Right now the game is boring because our casual Raidguild already cleared all the content except some nightmare bosses.

Thundan's Avatar


Thundan
01.23.2012 , 08:10 AM | #20
I also agree with OP - I was in a similar boat although I was a WotLK baby, I was hooked and in deep... until Dragon Soul came out. I was with a semi HC guild and we ripped through normal in the first week, the same as so many and then into Heroics 2nd week. I may be one of the few, but I personally don't value heroic modes that much...

I saw the content already... its got more HP and maybe a couple of new mechanics, that bumps my interest factor by a small amount, not really enough to get me jazzed though. I still like raiding with people but it just said to me that I had had enough of WoW. SWTOR came out and I continue to have fun levelling my 2 characters.

I hope that the challenge at 50 is of sufficient difficulty that you don't blast through it in a couple o weeks... although so far at least new content has been released. Thats more than that other company did to keep me interested. And yes. Even Ruby Sanctum counted.

In summary, I am a fan of new content over hard modes, and I like it to be challenging enough that it actually engages discussion over strats and a sense of accomplishment when defeating.

So far in the FP's I think Bioware has created excellent content, however... haven't really had much trouble in PUG's running through it as a point and click healer (which I never do!).

much love to you all
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