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PvP 'DPS' Immortal Build 32/7/2

Schwarzwald's Avatar

01.20.2012 , 09:51 AM | #1
Hello I'm a Battlemaster Jug (Full PvP Vindicators, 650 Expertise, 1500+ Str, 95% acc, 30% crit, 75% surge) with some tips for you guys who don't pay attention to the effectiveness of specific builds. I've tried many builds at my own expense and I have to say that I am happiest with this, though you may disagree. The general theme of this build is to offer a somewhat well rounded Juggernaut which benefits most from in group support roles. In the past I've posts builds of Soresu Vengeance, but they just seemed to be lacking any sort of extended viability. With this, I hope to educate a lot of you juggernauts on alternative roles which don't solely revolve around being a pure tank or being a pure lol-smash build.

First repeat after me. "I am not a mortal strike warrior."

Got it out of your system? Good.

What you want your stats to look like

What you 'kinda' want your stats to look like (aka w/o stim)

UPDATED: Added game play tips below.

What you CANNOT do with this build.
-Kill Everything
-Tank Everything for more then your CD's last
-Be the first target/first to charge in

What you CAN do with this build.
-Offer great focus burst DPS
-Control primary enemy targets with stuns and spammable slow
-Support teammates with guard and taunt constantly
-Play multiple roles at once without sacrificing too much.
-Pull in 9-10 Medals per game if you play right.

What this build relies on.
-That you are heavily PvP DPS geared.
-Once you hit 100% accuracy, its best to stack crit/surge/power.
-A Team

You are not a lone wolf and you will not single handedly carry pugs with this build, it is intended to work with a well rounded group which has at least one primary healer and one primary DPS.

How to play this build

Don't make yourself the first target unless its necessary. Your primary role is to control the enemy DPS and their healers, meaning guard teammates, taunt enemies and stun healers, nothing is more important than this. You cannot do much of this if you are the first one to get targetted by 4+ people in a huttball if you are the first one to the ball without having a proper exit (Intercede/Extrication).

You will have to pay attention to raid frames and whats going on in your proximity. Switch your guard often and taunt when ever the CD is up. Your primary goal is to make sure everyone else around you lives by mitigating the enemies damage.

The other part of your primary role is to offer support DPS. This means focusing with your group to take down a target. Your DPS isn't spectacular, but when combined with your control and proper itemization, you can easily spam 2K+ attack crits on every hit against Champion geared medium armor after sunders are applied. Besides the obvious Sunder -> Crushing Blow initial rotation, one VERY important part of your DPS is your Stun -> Ravage combo. If you are targeting a healer or a very scary burst DPS who threatens to kill a teammate, the best ability combo to use is either your Backhand or Unchanneled Force Choke. This order will nearly guarantee a large amount of damage on your target and is pretty much the best situation possible to use ravage in PvP.

While you do make a good ball carrier with some survivability cooldowns, and Charge -> Push -> Charge being great field movers, I feel that your abilities are much better spent on protecting a ball carrier. Guarding a ball carrier and taunting with a healer nearby is VERY annoying to an enemy team, and if they are an unfocused pug, their DPS will most likely begin to split against all the targets and once they have lost their focus, they have ultimately lost. You should consider your role to be an extreme nuisance to enemies with good teamwork, and deadly to pugs.

What kind of Damage do you pull in this build?
With all your control and survivability, your overall damage isn't going to compare to pure DPS classes, but it is still amazing for what the goal of this play style is. The follow numbers are based on what I've seen, but is nothing official, but you can expect top end numbers when you burn Relics/Adrenals/PvP buffs. With Crushing Blow you can expect crits from anywhere to 2.5k-4.5k depending on how armored/geared the target is. Ravage can do 1.5k per crit hit with a final hit of 2.5k+. Sunder can have around 1k Crits and your vicious slash (which is rarely used anyways) can have around 1.5k crits. Smash crits can be anywhere to 1.8k - 3.2k.

Why DPS Immortal?
If you don't like being a full on tank in PvP, then this is the build for you. I am not so much a fan of the Rage tree in its current state because it doesn't help you win games. All Rage is good for is generating large numbers on your screen, and killing everyone isn't always the best way of accomplishing an objective. Rage DMG is gimmicky at best and the survivability and control you sacrifice to achieve such DPS is just way too much. You won't be pulling 4-5k smash crits, but you will be living a lot longer and being able to dance circles around a Rage warrior should you ever encounter one.

Remember what I said about control? In a Rage build you can burn your whole Force Crush -> obliterate -> force scream -> force push -> charge -> Smash rotation and still have a healer standing with enough health to get off a full heal, and after all your primary abilities are on CD or you are low on rage w/ no options to generate it, then you are dead in the water.

With this build you can offer more consistent DPS to focused targets and be able to DPS WHILE YOU STUN. I cannot stress how important Backhand/Force Choke into DPS rotations are in this build. Play your CD's right and you can effectively lock out a healer out of 4 spell casts in a row (Interrupt, 2 stuns, and your interrupt again, though this takes into account that your team isn't resolve capping your target)

Other things that this build relies on (that any Jug should be doing anyways)
-Knowing when to leave a fight by charging/interceding
-Knowing how to generate rage and remove targets from fights. (force pushing an enemy teammate into the pit in Huttball is much more effective then trying to kill them, because with 1 ability you are effectively removing them from the engagement.)
-Charge - Force Push - Charge. Do it, you can pretend to be your favorite football player as you cruise across the huttball field.

Things I have yet to test out
-The pro/cons of using either an offensive or defensive shield.

- Generating Rage w/o Unyielding (reply to posts deeper in)


- Escaping enemies in sticky situations

-Engaging Group v Group combat

-Controlling Targets


The stuns allow for CONTROLLED DAMAGE. When viewing things from a 1v1 perspective, having these stuns effectively allows you to out DPS your target despite having a smash build. The point is the DIFFERENCE in DPS this build creates. The rates of each person's DPS constant if you are a smash build, meaning you will be taking damage as you deal it, meaning the fight has become a DPS race based on who can kill first, and the Jug is terrible at doing this.

Controlled Damage on the other hand, allows you to PAUSE your enemies DPS, giving you free reign to gain an advantage of effective DPS time. Would you rather 5k Smashed or the ability to potentially stop all incoming damage from the enemy potentially up to 8 seconds, giving you a potential 8 seconds of free reign to do as much DMG as you like to them without taking damage yourself.

If you have comments or concerns that I haven't come up with, then please reply.
The Golden Rule: All kids, all asbestos, all the time

PvP Juggernaut Immortal DPS 31/8/2

Metrx's Avatar

01.20.2012 , 10:35 AM | #2
So you run full dps gear? Soresu form? shield offhand?

Think i might give this a go

thorizdin's Avatar

01.20.2012 , 10:49 AM | #3
This is similar to what I run, except I go up further in Vengeance to get Accuracy instead of lowering the cooldowns for FC and Ravage.

Scinald's Avatar

01.20.2012 , 10:54 AM | #4
Interesting read but....

Quote: Originally Posted by Schwarzwald View Post
... with some tips for you guys who don't seem to know how to play your class.
with an attitude like that, this cannot end well.

NineInchNinja's Avatar

01.20.2012 , 12:13 PM | #5
Funny. The exact same build I have.

I was a mixed hybrid before, then went with this build. I'm feeling a lot more confident now, knowing I can survive a DPS burst and knowing I can take pretty much anyone on for long enough to keep them off the ball carrier.

The key adjustment is realizing that every fight is going to be a long one, as your DPS is steady not burst. I've had a few 1v1 and 1v2 where the opponents eventually gave up and tried to run away.

As the op said, don't leap into the front of the fight. Stand back, pick your targets and help the ball carrier.

Metrx's Avatar

01.20.2012 , 12:23 PM | #6
So you run dps gear?

Sookster's Avatar

01.20.2012 , 12:23 PM | #7
<3 Immortal

I'm immortal with more strength than endurance, setting up as a DPS with that tree does wonders, it's more difficult to play than veng and rage though.

OP, you can remove that one line about people not knowing how to play the class, that's not how you write a guide.
Now that GoergZoeller is gone, buff operative.
SWTOR going F2P, now playing SWGemu.

Schwarzwald's Avatar

01.20.2012 , 12:25 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Metrx View Post
So you run dps gear?
Yes I run full DPS gear. I have been bouncing between using a defensive offhand and the offensive one because I havn't yet noticed if the shield procs enough to warrant the slight loss in offensive stats.

As I stated in the first post (and should be obvious from my listed stats) you are going to be wearing vindicators gear for this build.

I see Accuracy as a wasted stat because the only people who seem to be effected by it are other tanks, and my job isn't to burst DPS down tanks really fast, its to control them and ensure that it is easier for teammates to kill them.
The Golden Rule: All kids, all asbestos, all the time

PvP Juggernaut Immortal DPS 31/8/2

Schwarzwald's Avatar

01.20.2012 , 12:30 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Scinald View Post
Interesting read but....

with an attitude like that, this cannot end well.
If a player goes deep vengeance and considers it to be a viable PvP build then they simply havn't paid attention or do not play with competitive groups. It offers bad DPS and the only benefit of deep veng is not getting knocked around by the billion sorc/sages out there.

I consider rage to be a gimmick because it doesn't help you win and only puts up bigger numbers on your screen for your e-peen. Attempting to kill people as a form of control simply is not effective if you are going against 2+ healer teams. Other classes can burst/DPS much harder then a Rage jug and not sacrifice as much.

I've yet to run into a Smash Jedi/Warrior who was able to not get completely screwed over by my ability to control them. Sure they have the speed increase, but I can just infinitely spam my AoE slow. I can choke, and backhand them, ruining the small timing windows for a proper smash burst. So really, Rage is just very gimmicky and only really does well in 1v1 or against bad team compositions.
The Golden Rule: All kids, all asbestos, all the time

PvP Juggernaut Immortal DPS 31/8/2

Sookster's Avatar

01.20.2012 , 12:31 PM | #10
As of 1.1 patch shield works in pvp now, it's been going off way more often with 29-31% shield chance when it only previously blocked default attacks.
Now that GoergZoeller is gone, buff operative.
SWTOR going F2P, now playing SWGemu.