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DPS Meters- A Elitist Guild Leader's Compromise

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
DPS Meters- A Elitist Guild Leader's Compromise

EvanSnowWolf's Avatar


EvanSnowWolf
01.20.2012 , 01:34 PM | #21
I accidentally the whole thing.
"But you know how it is, cows go moo, dogs go woof, and mmo players go the pvp is unbalanced." - Ben 'Yahtzee' Croshaw.

Helagoth's Avatar


Helagoth
01.20.2012 , 01:58 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Baliso View Post
This post is not designed to be a typical battle of pro's/con's for addons. It is to provide an alternative compromise to address the somewhat adversarial interests of Casual and hardcore gamers. Notice, I did not say I wanted an addon- only some form of a measure.
Yes but in doing so you continue the stereotyping of casual and hardcore in a way that is not accurate. Casual gamers can be good, hardcore can be bad, both can want or not want damage meters. Saying "casuals want this" or "hardcores want that" does not advance any kind of discussion.
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Baliso's Avatar


Baliso
01.20.2012 , 02:14 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Helagoth View Post
Yes but in doing so you continue the stereotyping of casual and hardcore in a way that is not accurate. Casual gamers can be good, hardcore can be bad, both can want or not want damage meters. Saying "casuals want this" or "hardcores want that" does not advance any kind of discussion.
As is always done in market segmentation/classification , I am defining hardcore vs casuals in a way that stereotypes the typical behaviours and 'interests' of said group. There are always outliers or people that dont fit a particular schema or stereotype. But this classification is used for general comparison purposes. And I use it because I can guarantee you it is similar to how Bioware views their customer market segments.

namespace's Avatar


namespace
01.20.2012 , 02:19 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Helagoth View Post
The amount of effort to implement addon support and a combat log is approximately equal to the amount of effort needed to make basic UI customization options and a damage meter.

Probably less actually, since the game's engine is what does not support addon's, and adding buttons that "move buff bar xxx units" is pretty simple compared to "create API hooks that allow a third party to dynamically modify the client". Making the numbers show up on your screen in a box is a 2 hour job for an intern, it's getting the info to the box that's tricky.

Blizzard's brilliance in their game with this regard was that they designed their UI from the ground up to be modable, thereby taking themselves off the hook for needing to be involved in any of it. They freed themselves up to work on other stuff and just let the nerds fix stuff themselves. Redesigning the "under the hood" stuff in SWTOR to work with mods is a pretty huge deal.
So, if this is true, Bioware implementing an engine with no addon support was a giant mistake. Addons and community support can increase the life-span of your game by years. I really don't see a company like Bioware making that kind of mistake.

Although, the game does seem like a Mass Effect MMO sprinkled with Star Wars skins
Juggernaut: Playing the underdog, so when they are fixed, I will be a god

Caldus's Avatar


Caldus
01.20.2012 , 03:12 PM | #25
I love this idea. When I think about the way I played WoW towards the end, I believe you can trace many of the game's flaws back to the availability and prevalence of meters. They're an excellent tool when used correctly and applied to the proper purpose, but in the hands of the unintelligent masses, they ruined a lot of the game.

If you take the meters out of the instance and put them elsewhere, the elitists and people who care enough can still use them for their proper function, but it doesn't subject the rest of us to a bunch of kids who think that "moar deeps" is going to compensate for lack of communication, poor use of cooldowns, and failure to adhere to fight mechanics.

+1 to the OP.

madmilitia's Avatar


madmilitia
01.20.2012 , 04:15 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Baliso View Post

As a guild leader and raid leader of a hardcore 5/5NM PvE
i stoped reading here.

your hardcore guild is only 5/5 in normal mode???????

we are 6/10 HM and only raid 3 days a week.
The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the potential of the Force.

namespace's Avatar


namespace
01.20.2012 , 04:19 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by madmilitia View Post
i stoped reading here.

your hardcore guild is only 5/5 in normal mode???????

we are 6/10 HM and only raid 3 days a week.
Anyone raiding right now is hardcore in my opinion. I have been playing the game way too much and am only 48. Some of us have careers and friends.
Juggernaut: Playing the underdog, so when they are fixed, I will be a god

goreadabook's Avatar


goreadabook
01.20.2012 , 04:24 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Baliso View Post
Up to this point, Bioware has taken the approach of satisfying the larger (casual gamer) market segment for SWTOR in regards to DPS Meters. The casual player does not want to be compared to elitists on a regular basis and be seen as a 'noob' or called out for sustaining low dps. Simply put, this is an understandable move; however, ultimately the pressure from the more hardcore 1-5% will become overwhelming and a compromise will need to be achieved.

As a guild leader and raid leader of a hardcore 5/5NM PvE guild I can develop a general idea of who is pulling their weight in raids. Indeed it is easy to track simple frequency statistics such as "who eats what when/where" in a fight - paper+pencil table ftw! One thing I would like is a better understanding of who has their rotation down/ how their dps compares overall to the guild. I know people dont enjoy the pressure (unless hardcore gamers) of constantly pushing meters on ops, but could we atleast get a "target dummy" where I can essentially have a member go to test their dps (where i can go to test my dps) and see how best to optimize it given patch changes etc. All I'm asking for is a dummy where i can go , unload for 3min and get some basic statistics reported in a similar to warzone report fashion - ie. dps, hps, largest heal, average crit dmg, ability break(ideal of dmg/crit). In addition, it would be kinda cool to have a dummy that hits you (but while in say melee range (in a city environment) you are chain healed) for reporting defensive statistics.

Leading further into this: Combat Logs- Problem with them is, someone can obtain a lot of information about who eats what, dps etc. if they really wanted to- takes a lot more effort. However, all i would like in this sense is just a report thats like

Baliso has died- Final (Death) Blow : Annihilator's Storm Barrage- 7345 Damage (2002) Overkill.

This allows a raid member to know their cause of death and fix it next run. It also lets me know on fights like Bone in KP why a member suddenly just drops to a random 30k mechanic (on full rakata tank?).

Hope this gets taken into consideration. Let me know what you guys think!

Cheers,

Baliso
Anchorhead
in the end all that the previous couple of MMO games that have been released were just too quick to release...too many bugs and not enough support for big ticket items. Companies are just releasing(what i consider) paid beta versions of the game(bf3 - who are already making a bf4 lulz and warhammer online are the 2 big ones i can think of) already.

Until the majority of the bugs can be fixed i wont take this game TOO super serious....its going to take quite a few months for them to get to the point where anyone should really take this game serious. Id say wait till the end of summer before really judging this game for hardcore players...and if you happen to stick it out...props to you! Even with the bugs the game for me is still rather enjoyable.

madmilitia's Avatar


madmilitia
01.20.2012 , 04:24 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by namespace View Post
Anyone raiding right now is hardcore in my opinion. I have been playing the game way too much and am only 48. Some of us have careers and friends.
LAWL

i work 8-9 hours and go to school and can still pull raids. don't throw the "get a life" put down at me.

you can get 1-50 in 19 hours played and that is watching every cut scene. and lvling your profession at the same time.
The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the potential of the Force.

namespace's Avatar


namespace
01.20.2012 , 04:29 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by madmilitia View Post
LAWL

i work 8-9 hours and go to school and can still pull raids. don't throw the "get a life" put down at me.

you can get 1-50 in 19 hours played and that is watching every cut scene. and lvling your profession at the same time.
Someone is in denial and likes to exaggerate
Juggernaut: Playing the underdog, so when they are fixed, I will be a god