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DPS Meters- A Elitist Guild Leader's Compromise

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
DPS Meters- A Elitist Guild Leader's Compromise

Nkryptd's Avatar


Nkryptd
01.20.2012 , 12:24 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by ltankhsd View Post
I stopped reading there.
I stopped reading right there.

Great post, agreed. I need to be able to measure who is doing what and then to help guild members optimize rotations.
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Atrox's Avatar


Atrox
01.20.2012 , 12:41 PM | #12
As a Guild officer and Ops leader, I'm really becoming displeased with the lack of combat log, DPS meter, and Threat meter; especially as more and more members of my Guild become Ops-ready, and as we continue progressing through content.

Tools like Omen and Recount are really invaluable, and even necessary for the purposes of being able to get a good, accurate look of the whole picture--so to speak. Frankly, not having these things makes my job all the more difficult. Who know how much DPS, HPS, or Threat generation we're currently lacking because we have no legit way to min/max and optimize ourselves and our group composition.

I'm really getting tired of seeing the naysayers QQing about 'elitist' this and that; as if that argument, assuming it even qualifies as one, holds any substantial weight or significance in the discussion. As it stands now, I'm left having to constantly monitor what little information the current UI decides to give me, and form a speculative opinion on that information to the best of my ability. On top of this, I'm managing the Ops group, detailing strats, providing vocal queues, and tanking bosses at the same time. In short, BW is just making my life more difficult that it needs to be--and a few simple additions (which are basically STANDARD fare for MMOs these days) could improve my experience, and the experience of my Ops/Guild.

Honestly, there's no reason these kinds of tools shouldn't have been available from day one. Overall, I'm becoming rather dissatisfied with BW's seemingly illogical decision making as it relates to many aspects of the game, and this is just another example.
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Baliso's Avatar


Baliso
01.20.2012 , 12:49 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Atrox View Post
As a Guild officer and Ops leader, I'm really becoming displeased with the lack of combat log, DPS meter, and Threat meter; especially as more and more members of my Guild become Ops-ready, and as we continue progressing through content.

Tools like Omen and Recount are really invaluable, and even necessary for the purposes of being able to get a good, accurate look of the whole picture--so to speak. Frankly, not having these things makes my job all the more difficult. Who know how much DPS, HPS, or Threat generation we're currently lacking because we have no legit way to min/max and optimize ourselves and our group composition.

I'm really getting tired of seeing the naysayers QQing about 'elitist' this and that; as if that argument, assuming it even qualifies as one, holds any substantial weight or significance in the discussion. As it stands now, I'm left having to constantly monitor what little information the current UI decides to give me, and form a speculative opinion on that information to the best of my ability. On top of this, I'm managing the Ops group, detailing strats, providing vocal queues, and tanking bosses at the same time. In short, BW is just making my life more difficult that it needs to be--and a few simple additions (which are basically STANDARD fare for MMOs these days) could improve my experience, and the experience of my Ops/Guild.

Honestly, there's no reason these kinds of tools shouldn't have been available from day one. Overall, I'm becoming rather dissatisfied with BW's seemingly illogical decision making as it relates to many aspects of the game, and this is just another example.
I agree, and as an elitist gamer as well as a market strategist I can understand both sides of the coin on the issue of addons and meters. I for one, am not asking for addons, I am not a avid fan of addons as they open the game to increased botting, mindless gameplay etc; however, at this point I am looking for bioware to make some kind of statement highlighting where this issue is going (not a "were looking into it") and come to some form of compromise. [See original post] .

Akella's Avatar


Akella
01.20.2012 , 12:49 PM | #14
Well thought out and written post OP. I'll give you a +1 and hope that Bioware implements some kind of system so we can actually see what is going on in our Operations.
.
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Twelve's Avatar


Twelve
01.20.2012 , 01:10 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Nazgadazoorp View Post
+1

I quite sure that the classes are unbalance and a dpsmeter will just show how much unbalance it is.
^ This.

I agree very strongly. I believe that Bioware knows there are many, many bugs with abilities, which therefore cause class imbalances, and until they can get them worked out, they don't want people to have hard numbers. It is obvious that they're collecting the data, because you can see some of it when you hover over characters in the PVP results screen.

namespace's Avatar


namespace
01.20.2012 , 01:14 PM | #16
If Bioware implements a combat log and addon support, all these issues can be addressed by the modding community.

There's no reason for Bioware to spend development resources on a DPS meter, threat meter, etc. After seven years, WoW still doesn't have these integrated into the game by Blizzard. These are all mods by the community.

I would rather see them fix the ability delay than see my threat
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Helagoth's Avatar


Helagoth
01.20.2012 , 01:20 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by elbicnivnimai View Post
You didn't stop reading there. You read the whole thing. Because it was a well written non-QQ post about an issue you clearly have an opinion on. Every time someone says they stopped reading, they're just looking for attention or something dumb.

So stop saying stupid ****.
No I really did stop reading there. Now I have gone back and read it.

It's the same basic stuff myself and others have said about a hundred times about why we need damage meters/combat logs. It's nothing new. However, it's still based on the premise of the first line, that they CHOSE to not put them in for reasons other than "Oh crap it's not done and we need to ship the game to please our EA overlords".

They're not catering to casuals, they rushed their product out the door. Many "casuals" want damage meters and combat logs too. The term for people who don't want them is "badies".

There's no need to continue to lobby them for something they've said they'll add.
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Darthsuds's Avatar


Darthsuds
01.20.2012 , 01:21 PM | #18
You want a simple, viable solution, enable a dps/threat meter that is optional and only usable in ops, and does not work unless enabled before a fight. Now heres the catch and the simplest answer to all your problems. DO NOT ALLOW A COPY/PASTE FUNCTION. The biggest issues in my experience from WoW would be raid/party leader, hey you suck, post meters and everyone votes to kick the "noob". Its one thing for someone to say you suck and heres why, spam the meters in general because you can. Its entirely another for someone to say you suck and have nothing to back up their words other then my dmg meter says this... does it, prove it?...

Another option would, make it a guild perk only usable when an op/fp consists of 75% guild members.

I personally would love a dmg meter, not to flame other people but to simply better myself. I dont even think it needs to be specific in terms of abilities, I would just like to know that if I do 1000 dps on boss x on date y, I want to know what I do next time to make sure I am constantly improving and if Im not it forces me to figure out why, make adjustments and try it agian.
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Helagoth's Avatar


Helagoth
01.20.2012 , 01:27 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by namespace View Post
If Bioware implements a combat log and addon support, all these issues can be addressed by the modding community.

There's no reason for Bioware to spend development resources on a DPS meter, threat meter, etc. After seven years, WoW still doesn't have these integrated into the game by Blizzard. These are all mods by the community.

I would rather see them fix the ability delay than see my threat

The amount of effort to implement addon support and a combat log is approximately equal to the amount of effort needed to make basic UI customization options and a damage meter.

Probably less actually, since the game's engine is what does not support addon's, and adding buttons that "move buff bar xxx units" is pretty simple compared to "create API hooks that allow a third party to dynamically modify the client". Making the numbers show up on your screen in a box is a 2 hour job for an intern, it's getting the info to the box that's tricky.

Blizzard's brilliance in their game with this regard was that they designed their UI from the ground up to be modable, thereby taking themselves off the hook for needing to be involved in any of it. They freed themselves up to work on other stuff and just let the nerds fix stuff themselves. Redesigning the "under the hood" stuff in SWTOR to work with mods is a pretty huge deal.
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Baliso's Avatar


Baliso
01.20.2012 , 01:32 PM | #20
This post is not designed to be a typical battle of pro's/con's for addons. It is to provide an alternative compromise to address the somewhat adversarial interests of Casual and hardcore gamers. Notice, I did not say I wanted an addon- only some form of a measure.