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[Proposal] Turn RE RNG discovery into XP driven discovery

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
[Proposal] Turn RE RNG discovery into XP driven discovery

coldcite's Avatar


coldcite
01.20.2012 , 09:01 AM | #1
Right now one of the huge drawbacks of the crafting system is the discovery method employed to learn new schematics, or more precisely the lack thereof. If I had to start over on some other server, I would pick Cybertech hands down. Its linear progress offers much more flexibility stat-wise than other craft-skills such as Armormech (my current).

For instance, f I want a heavy Cunning/Critical armor set using Cybertech, I just have to RE "Skill Armoring" and "Keen Modification" over and over until I get purple-quality mods, something that as of right now, might as well happen just after my first RE. Same deal with "Patron Armoring" and "Skill Modification" in case I would like a Endurance heavy set. (You might argue that some special modifications such as "Keen" and "Patron" are only obtainable through schematic items, if so please read on)

Blue/Purple items progression from even Green items however, even having the same discovery chance (5% estimation), it's totally random in which stat is added on its next iteration, and to make things worse, you actually have the chance of discovering some schematic you already know!

Coping with last example, if I wanted a Cunning/Critical armor right from a green quality item I would be pursuing the "Critical" prefix, in order to get it I have to RE regular items over and over... only there is a chance I discover "Redoubt" (+def) or "Exactitude" (+acc) instead.

So, what I'm proposing is the removal of the RNG involved when RE'ing in lieu of a XP based system. How would it work? you will have to select a "line" of progress you would like to invest XP on, you will be able to determine which prefix you'll obtain in your next iteration.

Quote:
[Cool Smuggling Jacket]
(Select "Critical" (+crit) in a dropdown menu from the item at RE time)

... RE ... RE ... RE ...

Congratulations, you have learned [Critical Cool Smuggling Jacket]
(Select "Exactitude" (+acc) in a dropdown menu from the item at RE time)

... RE ... RE ... RE ...

Congratulations, you have learned [Exactitude Cool Smuggling Jacket]

PROS:
- Crafting progression will be linear and not random.
- Progression rate can and should be tweaked accordingly.
- Would open a whole new world of new "hybrid" modification items, so its schematics are still useful.
- Possible market of fully customized gear 10-49.

CONS:
- Final nail in the coffin for dropped/quests green quality items
(Possible solution: this is happening already!)
- Will make high-end schematics way too powerful eventually.
(Possible solution: increase XP needed to "advance a tier" to almost impossible levels, or remove discovery on those altogether)
Arguel Coldblade Scoundrel/Sawbones (Currently Looking for Guild)
(US East - The Fatman)


Tired of Reverse Engineer RNG progression? So am I

StycianLeo's Avatar


StycianLeo
01.20.2012 , 09:11 AM | #2
This is a solution I can completely get behind, dare I say it... it's genius!

Raani's Avatar


Raani
01.20.2012 , 09:12 AM | #3
Fully agree. Some variations are there only to make our life miserable (see Redoubt versions for Cunning items, or Presence on epic items). I don't care if they kept the discovery rate the same, but at least you'd know that after 500 REs, at least you're getting an item with usable stats.

I'm sure some people will come here to say that we want things "on a silver platter" and that we should have to "work" for nice things, but that's bollox. Most of us are sane people and would like to see the light at the end of the tunnel when we do something grindy, Also, the current system doesn't reward dedication, but luck. I'm not any more dedicated than the other guy when I discover a good schematic after 20 REs, while he's got nothing after 150.

xerolegacy's Avatar


xerolegacy
01.20.2012 , 09:14 AM | #4
Interesting idea. I do agree something should change about how RE works. Eventually, the RNG will upset quite a few people once they've hit a long dry streak. A few days ago with armormech I went through over 50 lvl49 blue BP's without a single discovery, and it's pretty upsetting.

jamescloutier's Avatar


jamescloutier
01.20.2012 , 09:22 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by xerolegacy View Post
Interesting idea. I do agree something should change about how RE works. Eventually, the RNG will upset quite a few people once they've hit a long dry streak. A few days ago with armormech I went through over 50 lvl49 blue BP's without a single discovery, and it's pretty upsetting.
Just wait till you do get a discovery and it's something you don't want (like redoubt on a cunning piece) and the next discovery or 2 you get a message that "you already know that schematic".

Back to the op's posting, I'd love to see something like that. You can still bring in a bit of randomness by allowing critting on RE to equal bonus xp gained towards learning a new schematic. Also would want to work something in there where your crew skill rating effects how fast you learn the schematic (when at 400 for the crew skill it's easier to learn a schematic for a level 25 item than it was when your crew skill was 200). But all in all good idea.

Green drop items will always have a place IMO because they are free and you'll have compainions who could use it that you may not want to spend a lot of credits/resources on. But there should be a lot of different ways to go above and beyond a majority of world drops and streamlining crafting is one good way.

TheSeventhJedi's Avatar


TheSeventhJedi
01.20.2012 , 09:30 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by xerolegacy View Post
Interesting idea. I do agree something should change about how RE works. Eventually, the RNG will upset quite a few people once they've hit a long dry streak. A few days ago with armormech I went through over 50 lvl49 blue BP's without a single discovery, and it's pretty upsetting.
Yeah, it can get pretty frustrating. I'm wearing an entire set of crafted purples (they're not the highest tier I can make yet, so I didn't bother getting the exact purples I wanted) right now, and it probably took about a week to make that set happen. The worst part is, it took maybe a day of crafting to get the legs and chest, another day to get the boots, belt, gloves, AND bracers, but FIVE DAYS to get the freaking head piece. (When I say days, I mean that, while I was questing, I did nothing but craft/RE - craft/RE - craft/RE with my crafting companion and send other comps out to farm for mats.)

That said, I don't feel like I've wasted my time. I always use quest rewards to gear companions and get mods for my saber - and when I do make that perfect Jedi Guardian tanking set, I'm going to go into ops as prepared as I can possibly be. I may be broke, but I can afford all my skills, and I'd rather spend my credits learning something I can potentially sell than just buying it from someone else.
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http://www.swtor.com/r/GlscnB


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Darguth's Avatar


Darguth
01.20.2012 , 09:36 AM | #7
/signed

Discovery "tracts" of any kind is a GREAT idea.

Hell I wouldn't mind if it was a long, long grind as long as I *knew* I was going to get the schematics I wanted if I kept working at it. With RNG you could literally never get what you want.

ZingFreelancer's Avatar


ZingFreelancer
01.20.2012 , 09:44 AM | #8
I vote for it hands down because ANYTHING better than current system.
I am at the verge of loosing hair because of stupid RNG reverse engineering.


One note, why not keep both RNG and add linear progression, so that when you choose what path to advance and start RE.. RE.. RE you might have a 5% chance to obtain desired schematic on your second attempt, but you are also guaranteed to obtain desired schematic after X attempts.

RoJackal's Avatar


RoJackal
01.20.2012 , 09:46 AM | #9
/signed
This is a good idea, RNG sucks.

If you are not with me, then you're my enemy.

coldcite's Avatar


coldcite
01.20.2012 , 10:05 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Raani View Post
I'm sure some people will come here to say that we want things "on a silver platter" and that we should have to "work" for nice things, but that's bollox. Most of us are sane people and would like to see the light at the end of the tunnel when we do something grindy, Also, the current system doesn't reward dedication, but luck. I'm not any more dedicated than the other guy when I discover a good schematic after 20 REs, while he's got nothing after 150.
But we will be working hard to get things, discovery rate should be entirely tweakable (is that even a word? :P)


Quote: Originally Posted by jamescloutier View Post
Back to the op's posting, I'd love to see something like that. You can still bring in a bit of randomness by allowing critting on RE to equal bonus xp gained towards learning a new schematic. Also would want to work something in there where your crew skill rating effects how fast you learn the schematic (when at 400 for the crew skill it's easier to learn a schematic for a level 25 item than it was when your crew skill was 200). But all in all good idea.

Green drop items will always have a place IMO because they are free and you'll have compainions who could use it that you may not want to spend a lot of credits/resources on. But there should be a lot of different ways to go above and beyond a majority of world drops and streamlining crafting is one good way.
Yeah, you can still apply randomness as it's being applied in the RE already in the form of "materials gained", maybe linking both? as I said, entirely tweakable.


Quote: Originally Posted by Darguth View Post
Hell I wouldn't mind if it was a long, long grind as long as I *knew* I was going to get the schematics I wanted if I kept working at it. With RNG you could literally never get what you want.
Quote: Originally Posted by ZingFreelancer View Post
One note, why not keep both RNG and add linear progression, so that when you choose what path to advance and start RE.. RE.. RE you might have a 5% chance to obtain desired schematic on your second attempt, but you are also guaranteed to obtain desired schematic after X attempts.
Exactly the point, I could even stand randomness if I knew what kind of prefix I will get next beforehand. But hey, we could add a little more flavor with the XP system, also it will server as a tool for the developers to control the influx of high-quality items accordingly.


I just updated the OP with a new "con". This is suppossed to be a proposal to give the crafting system a more defined meaning at lower levels (10-49), but I feel this could be slightly overpowered when you compute operation-level crafting schematics: they will eventually be too powerful.

Thanks for your support guys, I would like to hear even more "Cons" you might come up with so we can discuss them and maybe tweak the proposal accordingly!
Arguel Coldblade Scoundrel/Sawbones (Currently Looking for Guild)
(US East - The Fatman)


Tired of Reverse Engineer RNG progression? So am I