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DPS Meter needed! Skill>Gear no way to prove it now...

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
DPS Meter needed! Skill>Gear no way to prove it now...

Rehash's Avatar


Rehash
01.20.2012 , 03:14 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by nite_shade View Post
Simple answer to ex-WoW kiddy eliteists...

1) NO DPS METER
2) NO GEAR SCORE

GOD! If i ever see message spam 'Making group to xxxx ./w GS and Achiev..' I'll scream!!

But I fear BW will bow to the kids in this game, as did Blizz... I suppose, we'll get a kung Fu Ewok soon.... Whooooo! I want 1... plz! giv gold!!
So raid leaders are just supposed to guess who is performing well DPS/Heal wise. Once the encounters become more difficult, raid leaders will need to be able to assess talent. You can't do that in this game without a combat log.

Mavery's Avatar


Mavery
01.20.2012 , 03:31 PM | #22
One of the main problems that exists outside of hardcore raiding progression guilds is players who THINK they are gearing and playing correctly when they are not. In TOR right now, a DPSer may think he needs X and Y stat, that priority rotation should be A,B,C when in reality that is -not- the optimal way to DPS. He could have a static DPS partner who is really good, and so they either don't see enrages in HM FPs or they see it just a little bit. Now does this DPSer say "hey, I must be playing optimally because we're not hitting enrages or just at the end." They might be carried.

This is a problem.

There are two options for PUG and raid leaders to go about DPS checks. The first is the inclusion of a meter so that we can see where DPS is at and who needs to improve in which fights. The second is monotonous gear checks. I've already started doing this in HM FPs. I don't want to be stuck with a subpar DPSer. Does this mean that i believe gear is the only indication of a -skilled- player? Absolutely not. But until I get a meter, and I don't know the person I'm grouped with, the quality of their gear, and more importantly, the choice in secondary stats is the only indication of how good they are.

Meters or gear score. Take your pick. There is no third option. OP leaders are doing gear checks right now. Do you want that changed?

TJHarmon's Avatar


TJHarmon
01.20.2012 , 03:42 PM | #23
I'm all for DPS meters, it helps me perform to my best and helps me keep bads out of my raids.

Gearscore is retarded, I hope they stay away from this.

Daggerhowl's Avatar


Daggerhowl
01.20.2012 , 03:47 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by deserttfoxx View Post
Enrage timers are the only current skill check, my static doesnt hit enrage timers on any content, but ive pugged the same instance and have hit the enrage timer on every boss.

DPS meters are needed, not only to prove if certain specs fail but if dps arent carrying their weight
Don't PuG then.

In my experience, most of the issues with PuGs are related with people not knowing that fire is bad and that they need to stay away from it, than with their ability to keep repeating a mind numbing sequence of abilities (that, at the end, will be what a DPS meter will measure). The only way that you can measure awareness is if the player is still alive at the end of the encounter.
Again, a WoW example. I raid as a Melee DPS. Let's consider a fight like Alysrazor in Firelands. I was in charge of interrupting a specific spell from some adds. My DPS in that fight was a meager 13-14k, because, well, I was interrupting.
I haven't done any end game in SWTOR yet, so I can't tell, but in a well designed encounter some classes would have a specific role (for example, range focusing in adds) and the difference between a kill or a wipe will be in how well people fulfill that role and not in sheer DPS. If dumb people start using DPS meters as the single measure of performance these range players will allow the adds to overwhelm the party only to focus their damage in the boss and top the DPS charts in the resulting wipe.

Slackfumasta's Avatar


Slackfumasta
01.21.2012 , 02:00 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Daggerhowl View Post
Again, a WoW example. I raid as a Melee DPS. Let's consider a fight like Alysrazor in Firelands. I was in charge of interrupting a specific spell from some adds. My DPS in that fight was a meager 13-14k, because, well, I was interrupting.
This is a terrible example to use. Alysrazor is not about raw DPS, and your raid leader knows this if he is any good. Nobody cares about your DPS on Alysrazor if you're supposed to be interrupting the casters. That does not change the need for DPS meters and other addons in the game.

Commodus's Avatar


Commodus
01.21.2012 , 02:20 AM | #26
DPS meters and gear check addons are just elitist junk we don't need in this game.
If you claim yourself hardcore raiders then go hardcore as in No addon usage what is hardcore about the fact you need addons to kill a boss.

raiding was fun when it was just a 40 men party when they started slimming down raid group sizes the elitist wankers got the upperhand and started spoiling the fun for many raiders that were just in it for the fun.
or even just small instances you have to do this bla bla you got to have this gear this spec blabla bla elitist bullcrap.
If you go raiding with pugs suffer the consequences like a man and not like a whining elitist ******.
If you are with a guild just kill the darn boss and whipe a few times you even whipe with dps meters and gearcheck so why even use them they didn't help you the game is about fun not a freaking job.

We don't need no stinking combat addons.

jonnybigboy's Avatar


jonnybigboy
01.21.2012 , 02:46 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
raiding was fun when
... you were carried.

If it's bring the player not the class, you need a meter. I group with the same 8-10 people I've met while grouping over the last few weeks because after running with them countless times I know they're good.

I'm a healer. I know which tanks used CDs, obtained and held agro. They're the ones on my friend list /w'ing me as soon as I login.

I know which DPS can be counted on to destroy the panels on bulwark .. they're the ones on my friends list, too.

What I have no idea about is any of the DPS I group with isn't doing great DPS. Maybe they obey fight mechanics but fail to properly utilize CDs. I'll NEVER have any idea how my HPS compares to other healers.

I want some way to know. Do I need to work on something and improve? Or should I be working with other healers in my guild to go over what I'm finding works well?

I dunno. Oh well.

All that said, I'm still managing to have a pretty great big pile of fun. How could I say otherwise as a 4p wearing healer waiting for his lockouts to expire, haha

Commodus's Avatar


Commodus
01.21.2012 , 03:12 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by jonnybigboy View Post
... you were carried.

If it's bring the player not the class, you need a meter. I group with the same 8-10 people I've met while grouping over the last few weeks because after running with them countless times I know they're good.

I'm a healer. I know which tanks used CDs, obtained and held agro. They're the ones on my friend list /w'ing me as soon as I login.

I know which DPS can be counted on to destroy the panels on bulwark .. they're the ones on my friends list, too.

What I have no idea about is any of the DPS I group with isn't doing great DPS. Maybe they obey fight mechanics but fail to properly utilize CDs. I'll NEVER have any idea how my HPS compares to other healers.

I want some way to know. Do I need to work on something and improve? Or should I be working with other healers in my guild to go over what I'm finding works well?

I dunno. Oh well.

All that said, I'm still managing to have a pretty great big pile of fun. How could I say otherwise as a 4p wearing healer waiting for his lockouts to expire, haha
What has being carried to do with just plain fun the way raiding is supposed to be?
making comments like yeah you were carried is just the elitist crap that spoils the fun for a lot of people that enjoy having a blast with their mates killing some bosses.
pre all the dps addon crap
we whiped we cursed and laughed and we tried again we all did our bits and killed the bosses and we had a great night.

Then the dpsmeters and other raiding related crap addons started showing up and gone were the days where it was just fun and raiding became a fulltime job as you had to be this spec you had to have this gear you had to do x amount of damage to be part of the raids. it was fun for a short period but when you see longtime friends leave due to the fact that they can't raid nomore coz they didn't have time to get the right gear or were just left out of raids coz they didn't end up in the top 5 dps ranking coz they spend most of their time supporting the other raiders with pots and shards and whatevers so they can succesfully do their stuff and not care about shards pots and such it just makes this dude a sad Panda

Yes I have raided hardcore yes I killed all the raid bosses in vanilla and the bosses that came with the first expansion but the fun was gone and it became a job I quit and never looked back I don't miss WOW one bit I just don't want to see SWTOR being ruined by addons that aren't needed and elitist wankers running around thinking the own this game.....

Kaehell's Avatar


Kaehell
01.21.2012 , 03:34 AM | #29
I completely agree with the op.

Yesterday we was at SOA in Eternity Vault, and we could not kill him because the dps was not enough, and he were still alive after the three times he kneels down.

Now, with a dps meter we could easily see who was not making enough dps and replace him with someone with a better gear/dps, without we just had to disband, because we could not know who were the problem.

So frustrating
"...the three great virtues of a programmer: laziness, impatience, and hubris." -- Larry Wall
The E.ngineering Xperience - Bacco approved

May the force be with you

Epyoch's Avatar


Epyoch
01.21.2012 , 01:23 PM | #30
They already stated that thy will have a combat log that pertains to you. which means you can probably parse a dps meter that pertains to you , and you alone. Which is awesome for those who want to see how well they are doing. I just hope you aren't able to link your dps meter in game...I hate people who think they are the best player in the world because they got 20 dps more than you this fight.


Personally I don't think a dps meter is necessary....the 4th boss in EV is a good dps check....considering that I usually kill mine first it must mean that I have the top dps right? well not exactly because of backstabs and stuff....and I am talking about the 70k+ dudes not the 49 and 29k guys.
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