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DPS Meter needed! Skill>Gear no way to prove it now...

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
DPS Meter needed! Skill>Gear no way to prove it now...

jaytrust's Avatar


jaytrust
01.20.2012 , 08:57 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Shocktastik View Post
How does a dps meter have anything to do with GS/Achiev? In a difficult fight if you can't perform you shouldn't be there. The only way to see this objectively is with meters. Not to mention many of us like to optimize our rotations without having to guess which abilities actually work the way the tooltip says?

Just enable it only for Hard/Nightmare encounters where it would be needed and while you are solo fighting the training dummy that should be installed in our ships!
This would be a compromise I'd be willing to live with.

Daggerhowl's Avatar


Daggerhowl
01.20.2012 , 09:23 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by jaytrust View Post
EDIT to add PROOF:

Yeah with the current system in place, (NO DPS meter) its kind of hard to make an argument as to why you should be allowed to go to a raid...
I still play WoW and my Guild is currently working in Heroic Modes in Dragon Soul. I could qualify as a well rounded PvE player.

I am not at end game level in SWTOR, I am not even in a Guild yet! However, if it happens that I start doing End Game I will be sure that the people in my team are my online FRIENDS. If they are my friends I will trust them. I'll believe that they are doing as much as they possible can to complete the operation and if we wipe, well, we dust off and try again.

A performance meter makes sense if you are raiding with strangers, people who you don't trust. For me, if we are working together in the gearing process, and when we face end game the boss dies, that is what matters for me. I don't need a DPS meter for that.

PatternJuggler's Avatar


PatternJuggler
01.20.2012 , 10:12 AM | #13
I'm a player who is also concurrently raiding in WoW and SW:TOR. I've done some Ops with some friends from that game, and some RL friends who had dropped WoW some time ago.

Despite having full trust in their abilities and dedication, I'd still like a DPS meter, or some kind of combat log. I recall reading that they were putting a combat log back in, which would allow for some kind of parsing of the numbers with third-party software - it would be enough for me to have the capacity to measure that with some dedication on my part, I don't need to measure every last PUG DPS to see where things are going wrong.

It's a real pain when my brother is trying to figure out whether Carnage or Annihilation spec is actually putting out better DPS, and there is zero way to tell except "Things may be dying faster (?)".

This is of course only an issue once you start fighting bosses that have enrage timers - before then, a DPS player can look at all his shiny tools and not play with any of them, or have a terrible spec (or no spec!), and get carried by a tank and healer that last long enough. It's terribly frustrating to not know who the weak link or what the weak spec is, except through subjective experimentation with no verifiable data.

Slackfumasta's Avatar


Slackfumasta
01.20.2012 , 10:50 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by PhoenixMatrix View Post
Explain to me how come most other MMOs that don't have dps meters never turn into gearchecks?

Maybe the problem isn't the lack of DPS meter, but the poor wow-clone game design? Hell, don't even need to go that far. Having combat animations that are actually visible would be a start @.@
Even back in EQ we parsed combat logs to check performance. There were no addons, at least at the time, for EQ, to measure damage/healing in-game - the game wrote a log file that you then ran through a parser. We did this to help figure out why we were wiping on some fights. We did this even in-guild with regular raiders to find out who wasn't performing enough and either correcting that or replacing them (if it was hopeless).

Slackfumasta's Avatar


Slackfumasta
01.20.2012 , 10:52 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Daggerhowl View Post
A performance meter makes sense if you are raiding with strangers, people who you don't trust.
Even with a guild of people you know, it still makes sense so you can figure out where you are going wrong if you are wiping. Without any feedback from the game, you're just firing shots in the dark.

Shocktastik's Avatar


Shocktastik
01.20.2012 , 01:15 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Daggerhowl View Post
A performance meter makes sense if you are raiding with strangers, people who you don't trust. For me, if we are working together in the gearing process, and when we face end game the boss dies, that is what matters for me. I don't need a DPS meter for that.
Who I'm raiding with doesn't matter. If we're not finishing a fight before an enrage timer I want to see where we can improve. A wipe is VERY rarely one person's fault, especially when it is due to hitting an enrage timer. If we as a raid need 800 more dps it doesn't matter if the dps improvement is spread between 8 players each doing 100dps more or if it is 1 player using a stim+adrenal and cleaning up their rotation to gain 800dps. The net result is the same, a win.

Personally I want to know if I'm not performing as well as I should so I can find ways to improve. In a progression raid it is every single player's responsibility to do everything they can to eek out every bit of performance they can. Without meters performance is binary win/loss and completely disregards any incremental improvements players make.

Daggerhowl's Avatar


Daggerhowl
01.20.2012 , 02:32 PM | #17
Trust is the key word in my post, I trust that whoever is raiding with me is trying his or her best, this mean researching specs and rotations and "testing" them enough. You can evaluate if a particular rotation or spec works experimenting with elite mobs about your level. You can use the tooltip as starting point and think about a particular sequence that makes sense.
As a reference, in WoW, with the development of TankSpot, Elitist Jerks, Icy Veins and other sites, the joy (and the challenge) of the experimentation and development of your own strategies was taken out of the game. Everybody ended doing the fights the same (and apparently unique) way. That is boring.
DPS meters can be a Pandora's Box, people would end focusing more in topping the charts than in reacting to the mechanics. If a good Healer keeps players up people can eat a lot of damage only to stay on the boss more time. A player like that topping the meters is definitely not a good player.

fredsaase's Avatar


fredsaase
01.20.2012 , 02:46 PM | #18
Personally, half the fun in raiding is the metagame. Going over log parses and seeing where things can be improved. How exactly do those of you against meters/parsing plan to help other players improve without having some sort of visual to compare performances with? Loving comments over VoIP? Praying?

I'll stick with math.
Channah, Seer Sage
Prophecy of the Five (PvP East)

deserttfoxx's Avatar


deserttfoxx
01.20.2012 , 02:51 PM | #19
Enrage timers are the only current skill check, my static doesnt hit enrage timers on any content, but ive pugged the same instance and have hit the enrage timer on every boss.

DPS meters are needed, not only to prove if certain specs fail but if dps arent carrying their weight
"Soon they will know my name, recognize my face, and understand what it means to be in the presence of true power." - Imitatio Dei Captain Sakari Foxx , Sith Juggernaut (Level 50)

IcRocklee's Avatar


IcRocklee
01.20.2012 , 03:10 PM | #20
MAKESHIFT DPS METER: solo a worldboss on like Taris or Tatooine. They have like 600k hp, but never hit you. Just time it and divide by their hp. Not perfect tho, since Assassins / Shadows and Operatives / Scrappers need backstabs.