Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Bad PVE Class balance


Manv's Avatar


Manv
01.19.2012 , 08:52 PM | #21
You can force leap to the turrets to tank them. You have armor debuff ability which is HUGE if your raid group doesn't have a sniper. You have arguably the best defensive cooldown in the game (Invincible/Warding Call). Bonetrasher requires 0 tanks because you can't really keep aggro on him anyway - and you won't get knocked into acid if you don't run close to the edge. Your aoe threat doesn't matter because there is barely any aoe tanking in this game, there is usually no way to get a whole group of adds in one spot and aoe them down like in other mmos - it's also not needed because most trash mobs even in raids can be easily offtanked by dps. Also, every single mmo I've played favoured ranged dps, so that's nothing new - it doesn't mean melee is not needed or not viable, even though Bioware doesn't seem to compensate for this.

Yes this game has a bunch of problems. Guardian/Jugg tanks not being one of them.

Tulukord's Avatar


Tulukord
01.20.2012 , 03:15 AM | #22
Sucks they made melee dps pretty useless, ranged is better for pretty much every boss of every fp/op.

Tulukord's Avatar


Tulukord
01.20.2012 , 03:16 AM | #23
double post

Canarith's Avatar


Canarith
01.20.2012 , 03:55 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Requimo View Post
This is a big issue, in Karraga's 4/5 you HAVE TO use a second tank but in 5/5, single tank is more than enough. So for optimal raiding, the offtank should spec dps in the middle of an op? What a load of ********.

Also yes, game obviously favors ranged. Something melee can do , bet your *** ranged can do it better. To compensate, melee should have more survivability or dps but neihter of this is present.

And not only pve, in pvp it's the same. Ranged got same amount of survivabilty, dps and cc as melee. How Bioware messed balance up this bad is a mystery.
Ok first off, I want to compliment the OP for having a very informative post. Even if I did not agree with everything he said, he at least explained his position well and didn't just present some short whinefest with no examples of what he is talking about. Then there is this piece that I responded to, which fails to reach the same level and instead devolves into some jump on the bandwagon because I agree about some minutae the opening poster mentioned. It is NOT unusual to have encounters which do what you are saying. Except......the one boss you are talking about that doesn't require 2 tanks is the NONTANKABLE one.......so what is your point, lol.

BMBender's Avatar


BMBender
01.20.2012 , 05:41 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Vehar View Post
Meh I haven't heard that about healing in fact I hear a lot of good come from commando healing, people like it. As for the combat rez, not every healer needs one =/
To use a combat medic for raid purposes the raid itself needs to be good at not taking AVOIDABLE damage. The autmotaic buffs CMeds can give a tank can be pretty sweet when specced correctly. But they are in no way and in no fasion designed or intended to be a utility or OH*()*)( healer.

AS to the OP Yea I'll agree alot of fights are very melee unfrindly to bigin with then toss in derth of aoe aggro management and nade nerfs yea it sucks. for certain fights
The only thing that should impact a players success/failure in pvpplayervsplayeris his/her skill not what they are wearing. Otherwise call it GvG gear vs gear, crunch the #'s in a calc, face-roll your keyboard, and go watch TV.polls by paulolesonhttp://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=164486pollhttp://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=164530

Requimo's Avatar


Requimo
01.20.2012 , 07:13 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Canarith View Post
Ok first off, I want to compliment the OP for having a very informative post. Even if I did not agree with everything he said, he at least explained his position well and didn't just present some short whinefest with no examples of what he is talking about. Then there is this piece that I responded to, which fails to reach the same level and instead devolves into some jump on the bandwagon because I agree about some minutae the opening poster mentioned. It is NOT unusual to have encounters which do what you are saying. Except......the one boss you are talking about that doesn't require 2 tanks is the NONTANKABLE one.......so what is your point, lol.
You are saying the Fabricator, the droid boss with the puzzle is not tankable? Have you even completed the ops before coming here and trying to look smart?

The boss gives unremovable armor debuff that stacks, which after some time makes the tank like a paper. So every once in a while 2 tanks have to switch aggro. The boss after that howerver needs only 1 tank and as far as I remember, it's tankable. The untankable one is Bonetrasher which is 1/5 of Karraga's. So I don't know what are you talking about.

Ok maybe this kind of thing (second tank is a must in one boss, useless on the next one) is not new to "mmo scene" but it's still annoying how you have to deal with it.

Also I don't think other things I said are above the line too, they are the things I observed. So if you think I'm wrong, please name a situation where melee is a better choice than ranged, because I can name a dozen for the exact opposite.

Tohrazer's Avatar


Tohrazer
01.21.2012 , 07:11 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Manv View Post
You can force leap to the turrets to tank them. You have armor debuff ability which is HUGE if your raid group doesn't have a sniper. You have arguably the best defensive cooldown in the game (Invincible/Warding Call). Bonetrasher requires 0 tanks because you can't really keep aggro on him anyway - and you won't get knocked into acid if you don't run close to the edge. Your aoe threat doesn't matter because there is barely any aoe tanking in this game, there is usually no way to get a whole group of adds in one spot and aoe them down like in other mmos - it's also not needed because most trash mobs even in raids can be easily offtanked by dps. Also, every single mmo I've played favoured ranged dps, so that's nothing new - it doesn't mean melee is not needed or not viable, even though Bioware doesn't seem to compensate for this.

Yes this game has a bunch of problems. Guardian/Jugg tanks not being one of them.
our single target threat is also not as good as a shadow's, and like i said force leap doesnt always place you ontop of the turret, then what?
Guild Leader | Aggressive Negotiations
Negotiations With a Lightsaber!
3 World first Kills, Ex SK Gaming/Curse, played wow, swg, aoc, war, ddo, lotro, and the rest

Kinada's Avatar


Kinada
01.21.2012 , 11:59 PM | #28
Bioware has spent too much time with their head in the sand rather than learning from the mistakes of other MMO gamerunners. The stole plenty of ideas on how to punish or hold players back acting like that somehow makes what content they have more compelling instead of actually being more compelling.

The leveling part of this game is fantastic. While it isn't groundbreakingly (not really a word I'm sure) different, it is keeping me enthused and entertained enough that I WANT to complete every quest I can find.

The raid game however is rife with the same problems present in every MMO since everquest. A much better job can be done on their raid design and even the hard mode instance design but they didn't seem to have the time to really work on it. I is strange to me that no one seems to sit down and think about how these things, like melee punishing mechanics, really effect their players ability to bring a group of players who are playing the characters they WANT to play rather than the ones that don't get punished by thoughtless design choices.

swpoop's Avatar


swpoop
01.22.2012 , 12:39 AM | #29
You stance on healers is so utterly wrong its painful.

Sages have 1 spell that is usefull on 1 fight. I'm not talking about SOA.

Commando healers are MUCH more superior for tank healing, which is actually needed on nightmare modes. You can use ONE battle rez for the whole raid every 5 mintues, so who cares about this ability. I'm sure even in 8 man you will have someone with one.
Also, commandos provide the best burst healing out there. Maybe I am partial.

However, for our clears of nightmare we ran 2 combat medics, 1 sage, 1 saw bones. Our main tank was a vanguard. We used an assassin sometime for OT, and guardian other times.

We have used all 3 tanks in our raids, and all are fine. However, threat in general is not great.

The balance is fine. Player ability is the greatest variable in these cases.
-«« CONŠEMNEŠ »»-
A NA TEAM PVP & RAID FOCUSED GUILD
Θ Θ

DeiVias's Avatar


DeiVias
01.22.2012 , 09:31 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Tulukord View Post
Sucks they made melee dps pretty useless, ranged is better for pretty much every boss of every fp/op.
We've managed to clear all nightmare modes with 2-3 melee DPS in 8 mans.

Sentinel/shadow/scoundrel are our 3.

There was no fight in the game currently that we couldn't do because we had melee.

The sky isnt falling people, it's like this in all MMO's.

The only thing id like is maybe give melee a bit more HP but that's about it.