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Sith warrior story fail, Malavai Quinn

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore > Spoilers
Sith warrior story fail, Malavai Quinn

Kalterien's Avatar


Kalterien
05.14.2012 , 06:05 PM | #271
Ephemera,

You sound like I did, the time it took for the mouse to move over was the time it took for a decision but granted I was more neutral than light through out the game. Course, I like to headcanon that Quinn is relegated to the couch for now.

I'm still debating if I want to slap that infected skin on him on the new sw I'll be rolling later on. My original one was on a server I hardly play on these days. Go figure.

Soteirian's Avatar


Soteirian
05.14.2012 , 09:45 PM | #272
Quote: Originally Posted by bright_ephemera View Post
Plenty of people did see it coming. As for me...at the end of Balmorra, Baras and Quinn do this little song-and-dance where Baras says "Yes, your debt is paid in full, I shall reward you and allow your career to progress!" and Quinn says "Ah-ha, I am thoroughly free and can do what I want and that's awesome!"
I don't think Baras said Quinn's debt was "paid in full". I believe he said Quinn had "sufficiently repaid" the debt owed to him. I interpret that as "you still owe me, but you've done enough for me to reward you from time to time, as opposed to just keep having you do things for free".

I also viewed Baras promoting Quinn and allowing him to be reassigned as a way to further the debt Quinn owed to him. After that 'gift' Quinn is back to owing Baras "more than you can imagine".

As for why Quinn chose to go with the Warrior. My thinking is: why not? Baras may have cleared the way for Quinn to be reassigned wherever he chooses, but where could he go safely? There is a powerful Moff that's dedicated to keep him down. No matter where he goes he's vulnerable to attacks by this Moff (remember he wanted the SW to send Quinn to him for execution). In a way, even though stuck in Balmorra was frustrating it also kept him safe, as the Moff was content with that outcome and not fixated on gunning after Quinn. As soon as the Moff realized that Quinn was free he would go after him again. Quinn might be allowed to leave Balmorra, but his choices were extremely limited.

The only way for Quinn to survive and have any hope of advancement was if his new boss both appreciated him and was also powerful enough to protect him, There were only 2 choices: go work behind a desk in Dromund Kaas and stay close to Baras, or follow the Sith Warrior and prove himself in the battle field. The choice seemed obvious.

DarthRamette's Avatar


DarthRamette
05.14.2012 , 10:20 PM | #273
Quote: Originally Posted by bright_ephemera View Post
I'm trying to think of a courteous way to ask What the hell is wrong with you? (This must be how Quinn felt every time I spared a Jedi's life...)

Killing Darth Refrigerator gave me the tastiest 200 DS points I ever ate.

No, wait. An earlier scene gave me the tastiest 100. Baras just gave me the next most delicious serving of Dark Side points ever.
I played as a LS Sith thus the reason for not killing him. If I roll another Warrior in the future I will kill him but that is why I didnt do it.

Kalterien's Avatar


Kalterien
05.14.2012 , 11:20 PM | #274
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthRamette View Post
I played as a LS Sith thus the reason for not killing him. If I roll another Warrior in the future I will kill him but that is why I didnt do it.
I've mentioned this before somewhere but I had the alignment indicator turned off for my playthrough of the SW, after deciding what her basic character was going to be, ended up very neutral and mostly forgiving. The one exception being her boyfriend-snugglebunny Quinn trying to kill her, she went into a rage. Granted if it would have actually killed him, I doubt I would have taken the force choke option.

@Soltierian

I had actually forgotten the exact conversation dialogue between Quinn and Baras just before the final completion of Balmorra, specifically the bit about the debt. Considering that particular bit of information, I think you're right in that regardless of how much Quinn "pays" Baras, he will continue to be indebted to him anyways. Furthermore, the bit about Moff Broysce is enlightening as well, since I had failed to consider the implications of Baras' other statement regarding the "powerful Imperials" that were dedicated to keeping Quinn down.

Regardless though, if Quinn had felt any loyalty towards the SW, he's still stuck in a rock and a hard place essentially and in his own way trying to make the best out of a really bad situation. I think someone else mentioned that even though Quinn is serving the Wrath, Baras is a long established Sith Lord and thus his history and power base are more concrete whereas the Wrath is a relative newcomer. It would playing the odds trying to decide between the veteran and the newbie.

JediElf's Avatar


JediElf
05.14.2012 , 11:51 PM | #275
Quote: Originally Posted by Kalterien View Post
Regardless though, if Quinn had felt any loyalty towards the SW, he's still stuck in a rock and a hard place essentially and in his own way trying to make the best out of a really bad situation. I think someone else mentioned that even though Quinn is serving the Wrath, Baras is a long established Sith Lord and thus his history and power base are more concrete whereas the Wrath is a relative newcomer. It would playing the odds trying to decide between the veteran and the newbie.
Exactly. I think Quinn was stuck with one of the hardest and most painful decisions of his life. Something like that can affect people deeply, even a dutiful man like him, and between the lines, he mostly likely became a bit undone at the seams, he most likely felt he was dead either way...and sometimes, even when deeply in love, we can make the wrong decisions, especially under that kind of emotional pressure.

My mind keeps pondering how this will affect him int he future, and how he's going to deal with his on his own, and with the crew of the fury.

Personally I kinda hope he comes apart a little, a very unhinged Quinn might be just as much fun, if not more fun, than Dark Side Jessa.

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Kalterien's Avatar


Kalterien
05.15.2012 , 12:31 AM | #276
@JediElf

A slightly unhinged Quinn yes... over the top crazy .. No thanks. I also wonder how this would affect his personal relationship with the female SW, and not just the professional one that they may have had prior to this.

Though with the crew dealing with it, I suppose it depends on how the player answered his question at the end of that particular incident. I know my SW chose to keep it a secret just between the two of them, mostly because it really was just her and Quinn on that ship and can be kept a secret. However, that being said, she could potentially use that particular bit of information as leverage or blackmail if needed against him. I don't think that it would go that far though in her case but you never know.

JediElf's Avatar


JediElf
05.15.2012 , 12:50 AM | #277
Quote: Originally Posted by Kalterien View Post
A slightly unhinged Quinn yes... over the top crazy .. No thanks.
Agreed. I don't think he'd lose complete control of himself, but, if he had a few little cracks forming, just around the edges....it would be interesting.

Quote: Originally Posted by Kalterien View Post
Though with the crew dealing with it, I suppose it depends on how the player answered his question at the end of that particular incident. I know my SW chose to keep it a secret just between the two of them, mostly because it really was just her and Quinn on that ship and can be kept a secret. However, that being said, she could potentially use that particular bit of information as leverage or blackmail if needed against him. I don't think that it would go that far though in her case but you never know.
I choose that option as well. However I was pondering if it may come out int he future, perhaps in a crisis moment with the crew, or in some other way.

This is why I love this arc so much! Even with the Sith Warrior Male (who sadly can't romance Quinn *sigh*) their is so much potential for deep, and complex storytelling.
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bright_ephemera's Avatar


bright_ephemera
05.15.2012 , 08:45 AM | #278
Quote: Originally Posted by Soteirian View Post
I don't think Baras said Quinn's debt was "paid in full". I believe he said Quinn had "sufficiently repaid" the debt owed to him. I interpret that as "you still owe me, but you've done enough for me to reward you from time to time, as opposed to just keep having you do things for free".

Hmm. Well said, I like that perspective.

Anybody know how I can get the line in the Big Scene where he says he owes Baras "more than you can imagine"? Or have a recording? I only got "Without Baras, I'd have no career."

Quote: Originally Posted by Soteirian View Post
The only way for Quinn to survive and have any hope of advancement was if his new boss both appreciated him and was also powerful enough to protect him, There were only 2 choices: go work behind a desk in Dromund Kaas and stay close to Baras, or follow the Sith Warrior and prove himself in the battle field. The choice seemed obvious.
Interesting. I figured Quinn was assigned to the Warrior as a spy - Baras, after all, already has some idea of how powerful you are and how powerful you can be. If he gives a small theatrical performance about this being freely chosen...well, we've seen greater efforts put forth to deceive Baras's potential competition. He ordered Draahg to always hold back in Vengean's presence - perhaps a very large effort for perhaps a very small advantage, but Baras valued that. Never let your target know what you're capable of. Always let your target believe you're happy to work for/with them.

Quote: Originally Posted by Kalterien View Post
I think someone else mentioned that even though Quinn is serving the Wrath, Baras is a long established Sith Lord and thus his history and power base are more concrete whereas the Wrath is a relative newcomer. It would playing the odds trying to decide between the veteran and the newbie.
Yeah. In evaluating anyone other than the player, Quinn isn't in the habit of underestimating threats. He isn't fool enough to underestimate Baras's reach. People talk about his being stupid to choose trigger-happy Baras over the Wrath, but while serving Baras guarantees his execution sooner or later, defecting from Baras guarantees his death sooner. Quinn knows this.

Quote: Originally Posted by JediElf View Post
I think Quinn was stuck with one of the hardest and most painful decisions of his life. Something like that can affect people deeply, even a dutiful man like him, and between the lines, he mostly likely became a bit undone at the seams, he most likely felt he was dead either way...and sometimes, even when deeply in love, we can make the wrong decisions, especially under that kind of emotional pressure.

My mind keeps pondering how this will affect him int he future, and how he's going to deal with his on his own, and with the crew of the fury.

Personally I kinda hope he comes apart a little, a very unhinged Quinn might be just as much fun, if not more fun, than Dark Side Jessa.
I'm not sure I can picture him experiencing strain. This is the man whose sole ambition was nearly ruined by the petty defensiveness of one man; he proceeded to serve where permitted for ten years, then get off planet and exact revenge as soon as practicable. Then he felt better. His life's calling, on hold for a decade, and his entire concern was to get even and move on. Compared to that, how distressing can it possibly be to shiv his wife (or merely his boss) then salvage the situation and once again get even? Problem, solution, done. He has never demonstrated the capacity for introspection that real remorse would require.

...In all his time with the Warrior, did Malavai Quinn ever apologize for anything? "I know it is meaningless to express my deep regret" may be as close as he gets, and he was trying to talk his way out of summary execution there.

Now, if he finally stopped believing that loyalty gets you anywhere, and realized that following the prevailing winds was the only policy that ever brought him closer to both his ambition and his revenge...imagine a mind like that freed from its old notion of honor. Wow. It is a tragedy that this man was born Force-blind.
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JediElf's Avatar


JediElf
05.15.2012 , 09:35 AM | #279
Quote: Originally Posted by bright_ephemera View Post
Now, if he finally stopped believing that loyalty gets you anywhere, and realized that following the prevailing winds was the only policy that ever brought him closer to both his ambition and his revenge...imagine a mind like that freed from its old notion of honor. Wow. It is a tragedy that this man was born Force-blind.
That would be another interesting development, if it happened. Quinn free of Imperial loyalty, and the emotional suppression it demanded.

If Quinn gave up his rank and position, I wonder what kind of job he'd have. Professional Pazaak player? Or perhaps just become a professional assassin/bodyguard for the SW.....Heck he'd make a good smuggler/bounty hunter if he wanted to. *ponders*

Now that would make for a very different Chapter four.
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Kalterien's Avatar


Kalterien
05.15.2012 , 11:50 AM | #280
@bright_ephemera

Found you a youtube link for that scene about debts with Baras:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_ZUn...feature=relmfu

Hope that helps some.

For myself, I believe that I contemplated the whole Quinn as spy line of thought after the incident as well, it was actually the first line of reasoning I went to. It didn't actually occur to me that Quinn may have approached the SW in order to protect his career in regards to Moff Broysce.

Also Ephemera, you brought up that point about how Quinn never really apologises, regret really isn't the same and yes we could argue that he's just trying to avoid execution there but it also sounded like he just wanted it over. Granted that particular interpretation of the voice work is VERY subjective. Even the whole scene on Corellia, which I didn't get because I didn't trust the jerk out of my sight , doesn't have him apologizing either.