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Sith warrior story fail, Malavai Quinn

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore > Spoilers
Sith warrior story fail, Malavai Quinn

jasoncollins's Avatar


jasoncollins
01.19.2012 , 11:35 PM | #11
it really did not shock me to learn that quinn betrays you
after all he owes a lot to your master lol its why when playing my char i always leave him in the dark about my true intentions

it is better to keep a enemey spy that you know about than risk having another sent
10% love for the real world
90% hate for the real world

Lexandar's Avatar


Lexandar
01.20.2012 , 06:14 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Lassiec View Post
Totally disappointed. When Quinn betrayes you, there must be choice to kill him permanently. How can a sith lord keep traitor aboard? Its nonsence. If Bioware thinks that he is fully punished just by little non-fatal choking and some scolding for betraying a SITH who killed ppl just for a pair wrong words, then Baras' betrayal can be handled the same way, lol. Just send to Baras an angry holo message, and its done. Totally ruins roleplay and now this 'storyline' for me is just a way to farm levels till max, i dont believe in it anymore.
I kinda figured that he was Baras' spy the moment he magically offered his services to me. Especially when he does so not 5 minutes after both him and Baras accused me of screwing up in Balmorra.

Thus when the betrayal actually occurred it wasn't so much an angry reaction for me, but a "Ah Quinn, I've been expecting you. What took you so long"

LukeBorgman's Avatar


LukeBorgman
01.20.2012 , 12:31 PM | #13
This really irked me since I had more than 9000 affection with him by that point. I would have preferred that at that affection level he'd at least say he was forced into the betrayal somehow. For him to tell me, at that affection level, that he basically thought I sucked, was just a total story/game mechanic disconnect.

And I agree that at that point I should have been able to split him in half in the most violent fit of rage I'd displayed up to that point. ...and then, since I NEED a healer companion, they should have let me bring him back as a brainwiped cyborg or something....

gibmachine's Avatar


gibmachine
01.20.2012 , 06:23 PM | #14
So I just had a convo with Jaesa when she tells me about how she killed a false Sith. One of the options available to pick was "relish this feeling as there are few bigger pleasures than destroying traitors".

Yup, inability to kill Quinn makes perfect sense.

xyreL's Avatar


xyreL
01.21.2012 , 07:40 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by LukeBorgman View Post
This really irked me since I had more than 9000 affection with him by that point. I would have preferred that at that affection level he'd at least say he was forced into the betrayal somehow. For him to tell me, at that affection level, that he basically thought I sucked, was just a total story/game mechanic disconnect.

And I agree that at that point I should have been able to split him in half in the most violent fit of rage I'd displayed up to that point. ...and then, since I NEED a healer companion, they should have let me bring him back as a brainwiped cyborg or something....
yeah bioware has never been able to do the story split off properly where something completly different happens but I do like your idea a lot

Jorander's Avatar


Jorander
01.21.2012 , 07:32 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkestDaemon View Post
The game's decided your character is more intelligent than you, pretty much.

By this I mean, not all Sith are 'RABBLE RABBLE BLOOD AND GUTS RABBLE RABBLE'.

Some are smart enough to recognize valuable resources and not waste them.
That is materialistic thinking though, which doesn't mesh with Sith philosophy. Someone who is a true disciple of the dark side, who really follows the spirit of Sith teachings, would absolutely butcher Quinn. Sparing him would be an act of mercy, and you do not show mercy on enemies, and Quinn made himself your enemy when he betrayed you. You might see it as a waste of resources, but are you really so weak that you might need Quinn for something at some point? If you are worried about what you are losing by killing Quinn, maybe you should look at becoming strong enough so you don't need to rely on him, or anyone else for that matter. That is how Sith operate.
"If your surrender leads to slaughter, that is not because the Force has darkness in it. It is because you do."
"That place… is strong with the dark side of the Force. "What's in there?" "Only what you take with you."

Darth_Vicente's Avatar


Darth_Vicente
01.21.2012 , 07:45 PM | #17
The option to kill him used to be in game, or in beta, rather.

Same with Ashara (Inquisitors)

Same with Kalyio, (probably) (agents).

(can't speak for the other classes or companions, but the points where you would have had these choices is obvious)

People took advantage of this, killed their companions.... and immediately regretted it because they needed them for something or another. They turned to Bioware in droves asking "Why u maek me lose my companion with permadeath?". Bioware then learned that no matter how clear they made the fact that your companions were going to die, both out of the game with interviews and such, and out with "warning" dialogues that required you choose the "kill him" choice more than once, people still didn't realize they could actually do it, and there would be a consequence for the decision.
Grand Lord of The Sovereign Aeons Server: Ebon Hawk
The Kinslayer Legacy
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Deshiel's Avatar


Deshiel
01.22.2012 , 04:33 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Lassiec View Post
Totally disappointed. When Quinn betrayes you, there must be choice to kill him permanently. How can a sith lord keep traitor aboard? Its nonsence. If Bioware thinks that he is fully punished just by little non-fatal choking and some scolding for betraying a SITH who killed ppl just for a pair wrong words, then Baras' betrayal can be handled the same way, lol. Just send to Baras an angry holo message, and its done. Totally ruins roleplay and now this 'storyline' for me is just a way to farm levels till max, i dont believe in it anymore.
I heard that it was possible to kill him after his betrayal in the early betas.

But thanks to the ignorace of some people who didn't understand that when you kill somebody, he will not remain by your side...

Personaly, I believe that alteast 30% of these were underage kids posing as matures.

DarkestDaemon's Avatar


DarkestDaemon
01.22.2012 , 04:34 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Adwynyth View Post
You know your own way, and assume that anyone who disagrees is stupid.

It's this type of "my way or you're WRONG" crap that has ruined these forums.

It's a game. Choice is good.
*Facepalm... again*

Alright let's put it -this- way.

The Sith who kills every single person, even if they are valuable, for no reason... isn't going to be a popular Sith. Isn't going to be a Sith who lasts long.

An intelligent Sith builds up two types of power: individual power and group power.

Individual power is the obvious one; to be a Sith you need physical and mental strength to be a threat on a personal basis. You have to be able to think, to rationalize, strategize and to back up these with either strength of arm or strength of Force (being strong in both is optimal). If you cannot do these, or lack the ability to do so by allowing your emotions to get to you then you become weaker (Palpatine during his triumphant moment against Luke, blind to Vader's betrayal).

You -need- individual power to succeed at first and just pass the trials to become the Apprentice to a Sith Lord. You also need to further develop this power in all aspects to link directly to the second power.

Group power; it sounds cliche but nearly all powerful Sith have a power base that they build from. You'll have allies in the Imperial Military, in the Republic, etc. (Darth Baras is a fantastic example). A Sith should have this built up as a fall back, they need ways to outsmart their enemies, to basically have strategies that go out beyond just smashing your way through enemy forces. A Sith, once they have this power base built, should also know when to eliminate those in their power base as well.

For example in the SW storyline, Baras is forced to eliminate a chunk of his power base because of Jaesa's powers. His spies are now compromised and need to be removed. This is generally the ideal moment you eliminate those working beneath you, when they can no longer serve your purposes fully.

With Quinn, he still has purposes to serve. We can see through the quests with him featuring that he has skills that outdo Pierce, who is himself Black Ops, which means elite of the military.

Quinn is a(n): Excellent tactician, medic, pilot, and tech (programmer, designer, computers, what have you). He's basically a one-man military staff. It really makes him invaluable at this point to the Warrior who, even though he is the Emperor's Wrath, will undoubtedly face forces in the future that will require him to fallback on Quinn's expertise.

Now why did Quinn betray us? Baras called in the favor Quinn owed him. Through Baras' protection Quinn had remained on Balmorra and away from superiors who hated him. Baras wanted Quinn to take us out, and Quinn's loyalty ultimately brought about his betrayal.

Now, if anyone had read the codex entry on Quinn, they'd know that he is duty-bound and honorable. Darth Baras, as said earlier, was instrumental in Quinn's early successes. Our warrior would know how duty-bound and loyal Quinn was by just listening to the guy speak whenever they were in front of Baras.

So Bioware taking out the option to kill him is basically Bioware saying 'You're Sith is smarter than you'. It's not meant to be an insult, it's just a fact. Even if we ignored it for the most part, our character would know that Quinn was a creature of Baras due mostly to the fact Baras helped him so much.

Our character would also know that Quinn still has uses, uses which still make him irreplaceable at this point.

In closing, to give an example of this idea, I'll draw attention to Palpatine once more.

Palpatine saw uses for Dooku, up until the point he knew he had Anakin in his power which is when he had his Apprentice killed. With Anakin he kept him around as an Apprentice once more until the point he found Luke.

It isn't out of care or feeling that our characters keep Quinn around (unless ya married him I guess... or genuinely like the guy), but it's out of his usefulness. Once our characters get to the point where they: Find someone like Quinn, find someone better than Quinn or no longer need someone like Quinn, then story-wise, Quinn would be killed for his betrayal.

I'd let Pierce do it.

Last point, this is just to make it more simplified.

If you were in a war and had access to a mine filled with valuable resources, then one day found enemy miners inside taking the resources. Would you really blow up the mine, cutting off some nice minerals and etc. for you just to not allow your enemy to have it? Or would you watch the mine more closely to make sure your enemy doesn't get to it?

Romick's Avatar


Romick
01.22.2012 , 09:10 PM | #20
No, Daemon, how dare you make sense!! Sith kill everybody!! Sith smash!! RAAAAAWWWR!!