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Would Mace Windu be considered a "Dark Jedi"?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Would Mace Windu be considered a "Dark Jedi"?

ricofico's Avatar


ricofico
01.18.2012 , 09:53 AM | #41
After reading everyones post in this thread, here my two cents to what yall said!

All Dark Jedi go Sith, with the exception (thus far) with Q.Voss. I think the only reason he didn't was due to his family. It kept him grounded. With a birth of a child, your more focused on your childs well fare. I.E. Darth Vader after seeing his child Luke suffering under Darth Sidious's force lighting. He was only then moved to act against him. Remember the whole reason why Anakin went dark was to save his family. He only went "full" Sith after his duel with O. Kenobi. And the distruction of his family as told by his master. "give them something to crave, and then take it away" thats the power of the dark side of the force. (I based this also off the Return of the Sith game).
Spoiler


Back to topic tho:

Mace Windu should have never been on the counsel, I agree. He was too close to the dark side. Sora Bulq who co-created Vaapad with M. Windu fell to the dark side. Now here's where I go crazy. Mace Windu fell to the dark side during the fight with Darth Sidious. If you watch the movie (IMO) you see it in his face. The next thing he says is "he's too powerful to stay alive". More convo yadda yadda yadda, and then he attempts to swing at Lord Sidious. And Anakin stops him by chopping off his hand (his signiture move BTW). Its my feeling and most people that this whole scene was staged by Darth Sidious. I feel he had a back up plan too. If Anakin didnt show up Mace Windu would be the next apprentice. Its not that far fetched either. Look at all the people who fell before Lord Sidious already. Mace was already there he just needed a little nudge, if you will.

thats it for me bye.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.

Intarabus's Avatar


Intarabus
01.19.2012 , 01:57 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by ricofico View Post

All Dark Jedi go Sith, with the exception (thus far) with Q.Voss. I think the only reason he didn't was due to his family.
Not only this. In two times in the comics, he uses some unusal meditation form in midst of battle to come over his dark side (not only against Sora Bulq, but also Volffe Karkko). In the second battle with Bulq, Aayla and Tholme lead him mentally back tho light side. So it is his dedication to introspection (seen many times in the Vos-Comics, also when he struggles to survive order 66) together with his strong bonds to his teacher and pupil. Family plays a role, but more because he choses it over the Jedi way, which he knows he can't properly follow. But he is also leaving the Jedi because of regret over some of his deeds.

Apocryphas's Avatar


Apocryphas
01.19.2012 , 02:07 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by trellen View Post
title says it all.
If not than are there any other examples of such?
racist!!!
(█|▀▀/‾‾‾‾‾|███████████████████████████████████████

Greyshadow's Avatar


Greyshadow
01.19.2012 , 02:15 PM | #44
The topic of Light/dark has been debated for years. To be fair, it's safe to call Mace Windu a "Gray Jedi" he walks in the Light, but it not above using whatever means necessary to achieve his goal.

As mentioned his lightsaber form brings him dangerously close to using DS powers, but it also made him quite adept.

It is also debatable whether or not he was a Teras Kasi Master (most would probably say no, but he has been known to use TKM type techniques), this is an offensive form of martial arts designed to fight Jedi.

In a time where the Sith are extinct, there is really no reason why Mace Windu should know these things, UNLESS the Order would train certain members in these arts in case there was future need for them. It certainly stands to reason that they would not have allowed him to train them if they didn't think it might be useful.


We all know the real world isn't always Light and Dark, or Good and Evil.... there are many lines, fences, shades of gray, DMZ's whatever you want to call it, and many of us have to operate in those areas.

Zantul's Avatar


Zantul
01.19.2012 , 02:36 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by Iaius View Post
He was pretty close to falling. He'd decided to commit treason and circumvent the laws of the Republic by assaulting the Supreme Chancellor and--if necessary--seizing control of the Senate itself. Due process, Windu says? What's that? If Skywalker hadn't stopped Windu, it's likely Windu would have killed Palpatine outright because he simply couldn't be bothered to do things right. That sort of shoddy moral justification is exactly what leads people astray.

Palpatine would have won either way. If he were killed by Windu, the Jedi would have simply become the very thing they were trying to fight.
Finally someone who sees through the looking glass like I do....

THANK YOU!!
It is better to be feared than loved. Love is like a chain of obligation, and because man is sadly wicked it is broken at every opportunity to serve self interest. However fear is maintained by the dread of punishment which never abandons you.
Darth Venger Prophecy of the 5

RoadtoArkham's Avatar


RoadtoArkham
01.19.2012 , 02:42 PM | #46
Come on, it's Palpatine.

YES HE DESERVES TO DIE, AND I HOPE HE BURNS IN HELL!- Mace Windu

The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy My brothers. And you will know My name is the Lord when I lay My vengeance upon thee. - Mace Windu
Hail to the King, baby.

Greyshadow's Avatar


Greyshadow
01.19.2012 , 02:53 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by RoadtoArkham View Post
Come on, it's Palpatine.

YES HE DESERVES TO DIE, AND I HOPE HE BURNS IN HELL!- Mace Windu

The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy My brothers. And you will know My name is the Lord when I lay My vengeance upon thee. - Mace Windu
bahaha... for a long time I loved to use the joke:

"now I want you to reach into that bag, and get out my lightsaber"

"which one is yours?"

"It's the one that says Bad Muther******"

smartalectwo's Avatar


smartalectwo
01.19.2012 , 03:15 PM | #48
The Jedi have the unenviable position of having to balance the laws of the Republic and the will of the Force, but I have a feeling that when these two things conflict and cannot be reconciled, they'll always put the will of the Force first. That's how the Jedi roll.

So yeah. I don't think Mace was gonna fall for doing in Palpatine, as he didn't kill him in the heat of the moment - he stopped what he was doing, thought about it, and realised he had no choice. Acting without emotion, serenely and knowledgably. That's the Jedi Code, baby. He was about to break the law, sure, but that's not quite the same thing.
There is no try.

PhilyFooFighter's Avatar


PhilyFooFighter
01.19.2012 , 03:40 PM | #49
Mace Windu is not a Dark Jedi in my opinion.

That said, Mace's decision to kill Palpatine instead of taking him in during Episode III was a Dark Side decision. This was the culmination of the Palpatine's manipulation, as this convinced Anakin that there was no real difference between the Jedi and the Sith, that the Jedi talked the talk but didn't walk the walk. But unlike the Jedi, Palpatine's Sith teachings could help him to save his wife....

Notice that Windu uses the same excuse for trying to kill Palpatine as Palpatine gives for why Anakin needed to kill Dooku earlier in the movie: "He was/is too dangerous to be left alive." This is no doubt intentional on Lucas's part, demonstrating how Anakin could come to view the Jedi as hypocrites. This is also clearly indicative of Dark Side thinking, as the Light Side values life above all else and demands that violence and killing be absolute last resorts only.

Granted, when Anakin stood by as Palpatine killed Windu and yelled "UNLIMITED POWER!!!" that was also Dark Side. The Light Side course of action would have been to prevent Windu from killing the seemingly unarmed Palpatine, then cutting off Palpatine's hands to prevent him from killing Windu, and then bringing Palpatine in to the authorities. No one said following the Light was easy!

All that said, this is still controversial among fans, as they debate back and forth about whether Windu's actions were justified. Even so, it is my impression is that exposing Palpatine by taking him to the authorities would have done more good in the long-run then merely killing him, as this might have prevented Anakin's fall and revealed Palpatine's true colors to the greater galaxy.

Edit: I don't think that Windu would have "fallen" if he had killed Palpatine, and it is possible that it was "the Will of The Force" to kill Palpatine, since The Force has greater knowledge than any one individual. But it certainly wasn't the will of the Light Side, and thus still qualifies as a Dark Side decision.

Personally, i think the Will of The Force is expressed through Anakin throughout the story. Even Anakin's becoming Vader and killing off the Jedi could be viewed as necessary to bringing about balance, as the Jedi in their current form were too extreme in condemning love and all emotion, something that would be corrected in Luke Skywalker's reborn order. Thus, with both the Sith and the Jedi destroyed, the thousands-of-years-old conflict between them was ended, The Force achieved "balance," and Luke was able to bring about a reasonable reconciliation between peace, passion, and emotion in the form of the New Jedi Order.