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Dungeon Finder System Eventually


MareLooke's Avatar


MareLooke
12.13.2011 , 12:23 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthNoruk View Post
Could you imagine the level of annoyance in WoW if you had to travel to Outworld every time you had wanted to do dungeons? I am personally happy they plan to implement in this way.
Yes.

And guess what, it wasn't annoying at all, jump on the flight point, grab a drink, jump into the dungeon, and IF you needed waiting, talk to your group members, set up some tactics, tell jokes, make friends (this was THE way to recruit new people before LFG ruined everything)! Finding people on the realm was much easier (you ended up having quite a few on your friends list that you knew were nice), avoiding annoying (euphemism here) people was also easier, in fact, the real *****s tended to leave the server fast because soon nobody would group with them or even want them in their guild.

I knew most of the active people on my realm.

Then came Wrath of the Lich King with it's cross realm dungeon finder.

Net results (some of them anyway):
  • Nearly no talking in groups, no jokes, no stupid pulls "for kicks". Just rushing through content, the faster, the better. If people said "hi" at the start "bye" at the end you had a seriously social group.
  • Ninjas ran rampant. Before LFG ninjaing meant that in no time you would not be getting any groups at all on that realm for a seriously long time. Now it just means getting booted from one group so you can start over with the next...
  • Frustration of ending up in a bad group and the way people dealt with said groups (badly and often rudely), see also next point.
  • Easier to quit and find an overgeared group than actually try to do the dungeon with the people you've got. Being a "quitter" earned you seriously bad rep back in the day, now it's standard procedure.
  • Total lack of support for newbies, back in TBC people mentored newbies, took time to explain the tactics etc, nowadays they're seen as ballast and often kicked because "they suck" or because people just can't be bothered with even the most basic explanation of a bossfight.
  • It heavily devaluated the rewards from dungeons. In TBC finding a group for MgT and actually completing it was a feat for most people, not to mention getting some of the neat loot from there. Now a dungeon is just a way to gain "dungeon points".
  • It mostly killed the social aspect of the game outside of your own guild.

Also after Wrath hit (or more correctly, when ICC was released) I moved realms, I raided there for like 6months. By the end of those ~six months when I decided to quit raiding I realized I knew NOBODY (no, I'm not being dramatic, literally NOBODY) on the realm even though I'm a fanatic "dungeoneer" and often pugged raids (even though I had no real reason to, being in one of the top guilds in the realm) and wasn't averse to PVP-ing either (though I despise arena).

No, I'm STRONGLY (to put it mildly, basically it's something I'd quit playing over) opposed to any form of cross-realm LFG.

EDIT: edited for lots of typos...

Liarablade's Avatar


Liarablade
12.13.2011 , 12:26 PM | #12
I don't like the dungeon finder system, I personally prefer some control over my group make up / my group mates. If they put it in, I will likely just group with guildies, I have never had a good experience in a totally random DF group... always someone is AFK, or acting dumb, etc.

SukeLywalker's Avatar


SukeLywalker
12.13.2011 , 12:34 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Liathan View Post
Actually blizz implemented a LFG tool in TBC but no one wanted to use it, even after they got rid of the LFG channel. Wrath brought about match making, porting, and cross server functionality. I disagree with the idea that a LFG tool, even with matchmaking takes away from exploration and gets people to just sit in a city. What gets people to sit in a city is the combination of teleporting, boring zones, better rewards from matchmaking, and it's more efficient. Take out teleporting and people can no longer sit in the cities. Don't offer a reward other then completing the instance and don't make it more efficient then world leveling, and people have even less of an incentive to be queue monkeys. And if you want me to explore the world, then don't stick all the instances on the fleet, that's kind of counterintuitive...
Agreed. I remember having to run to instances in SWG on the planet of Kashyyyk, just to fight this General Grevious clone. Or was it the real him? Anyway, Even playing Ultima during 2TA I had to do a bit of exploration. I had help from guild mates to get to where we were going. I got lost for a bit till I found everyone, but I'm ok with that.

Maybe I'm ok with that because I look back thinking how much fun I had, but I know at the time I was probably winded you could say from trying to find my way through this impossible maze of different zones. But thats what made it fun.

I would not appreciate the world created if I did not have to go out and ride my horse on a road, through forests, deserts, mountains, and finally a cave just to get to the bottom to fight this giant monster.
If he lived next door to my house I'd have 100+ players waiting in que as they took up space on my lawn and sitting around waiting to get in the small 8x8 box they call the monsters house. That to me is not as fun, but it did give me a chance to sit and chat with guild members.

I have to say it's so true that the background goes under appreciated. Even when your there in the lair of the beast, but I hope gamers gain some persepective the reason we don't have a dungeon finder at the beginning of the game. I totally agree, let the game mature a bit when a large % of players HAVED explored the game before putting some sort of LFG system in.

Regardless a community is going to find a social hotspot to sit and ask around for a group for flashpoints or help.

I did see a small number of players sitting around the flashpoint NPC for Esseles during Beta, but that will be quite normal. Not to take away from anything you have said thus far on this thread OP. Hopefully adding to it.

PorsaLindahl's Avatar


PorsaLindahl
12.13.2011 , 12:36 PM | #14
Dungeon Finder - No. No reason for it.

LFG - There's already an effective LFG system. It only takes about 30 seconds, if you're slow, to utilize it.
There is no ignorance; there is knowledge. There is no fear; there is power. I am the heart of the Force. I am the revealing fire of light. I am the mystery of darkness. In balance with chaos and harmony. Immortal in the Force.

MareLooke's Avatar


MareLooke
12.13.2011 , 12:39 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Liathan View Post
Actually blizz implemented a LFG tool in TBC but no one wanted to use it, even after they got rid of the LFG channel.
You're wrong, they didn't get rid of the LFG channel, they tied it to the LFG system. People DID use LFG, but mainly as a way to get into the LFG channel, because unlike Trade chat the LFG channel was GLOBAL.

Imho it worked a lot better than the thing we have had to live with since WotLK for reasons explained in my other post

Liathan's Avatar


Liathan
12.13.2011 , 01:14 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Danash View Post
I personally would hate a dungeon finder, for the simple reason that it would end up like in WOW idling in Stormwind/Orgimmar until your queue pops. I used to love skirmishes at raid instance portals, which are relatively non existant with the rise of dungeon finder tools.
take out the ability to port and guess what, this goes away. that being said, this won't happen for FP's anyways since they are all on the fleet station.

Liathan's Avatar


Liathan
12.13.2011 , 01:19 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by PorsaLindahl View Post
Dungeon Finder - No. No reason for it.

LFG - There's already an effective LFG system. It only takes about 30 seconds, if you're slow, to utilize it.
It's so effective that no one used it....

Liathan's Avatar


Liathan
12.13.2011 , 01:22 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by MareLooke View Post
You're wrong, they didn't get rid of the LFG channel, they tied it to the LFG system. People DID use LFG, but mainly as a way to get into the LFG channel, because unlike Trade chat the LFG channel was GLOBAL.

Imho it worked a lot better than the thing we have had to live with since WotLK for reasons explained in my other post
Well you're right and you're wrong. When the tool first came out the LFG channel was still in existence, however no one used the tool so they got rid of the channel in an attempt to force people into the tool. People did not like this and so then blizz gave back the LFG channel but in order to use it, you had to be flagged as LFG. People still didn't like this so they just started spamming chat to find their groups.

kuldirongaze's Avatar


kuldirongaze
12.13.2011 , 01:27 PM | #19
Has no one played a recent MMO other than WoW?

I played Rift before and after the LFG tool.

The devs created the tool since they noticed very few players compared to the total was taking advantage of the dungeon content. They tried a same-server LFG tool but it had serious limitations (small pool of players to draw from) so went to a cross-server tool.

Did it change the community? Absolutely. I was sad and happy at the same time. It was great to always group with the sample people but you know what? Over time, people played different toons, different factions, and different games. I'd spend a good part of my play time spamming chat and LFG.

The cross-server LFG tool allowed me to play in dungeons which is what I most like to do in MMOs. The necessity of this tool is a testament to how I guess many players don't like running dungeons. If they did, there'd have been a lot more using the same-server tool. Since there weren't, the devs had to make it crossserver.

Bioware WILL make a LFG tool. Sure they might try same-sever and no teleporting and no rewards for a while but eventually it'll be just like Wow's.

Why? Because it works to get players in groups. Simple as that.

Now then, hopefully I get EGA soon so I can start playing and spend less time in chat....

Ohnoto's Avatar


Ohnoto
12.13.2011 , 01:56 PM | #20
I played Rift during its beta, I had a VIP beta key for it. At the time, I was completely burned out on WoW, and that was too similar. I have heard there have been major changes to differentiate itself from WoW. However, my understand is that Rift introduced their Dungeon Finder when they did due to lack of population on their servers. I may be wrong, and correct me if I am. All I am saying is that I don't think there will be a lack of people on these servers.
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