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Dungeon Finder System Eventually


ZeroNeutral's Avatar


ZeroNeutral
12.23.2011 , 08:58 AM | #151
Quote: Originally Posted by Ghorsh View Post
I don't know...
When I use lfg tool (same server) and the group is formed I say 'Hello' to the group.
The roles are already set so no need to discuss roles.
If someone is not familiar with instance he should ask for help with tactics.
If there is need to discuss something (loot roll, tactics, helping or just friendly chatter), then I do that.
Some people are more outgoing and chat more, some are not. It's all good.

Now, why is not using lfg tool so much better for community?
Because of this?

- Standing on fleet station all the time…
- (general) Lfg Hammer Station
- (no response, general chat spam)
- (general) Lfg Hammer Station
- (whisper) Invite me /invite
- (party) Your role?
- (party) dps
- (party) ok, I’ll heal
- (general) Lf2m Hammer station tank/dps
- (no response, general chat spam)
- (general) Lf2m Hammer station tank/dps
- (no response, general chat spam)
- (whisper) I can dps /invite
- (party) Hello, hello
- (general) Lf1m Hammer station tank
- (no response, general chat spam)
- (general) Lf1m Hammer station tank
- (no response, general chat spam)
- (general) Lf1m Hammer station tank
- (no response, general chat spam)
- (whisper) ok, I’ll do it /invite
- (Party) Hello
- (party) XY, are you coming?
- (no response, general chat spam)
- (party) XY?
- XY has gone offline
- (general) Lf1m Hammer station
- (no response, general chat spam)
- (general) Lf1m Hammer station
- (whisper) I will go /invite
- (waiting for all players to get together)
- Enter flashpoint
- The rest is the same as with lfg tool
I am also baffled as to how this is better than an intelligent, automatic LFG tool.
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Ohnoto's Avatar


Ohnoto
12.23.2011 , 09:03 AM | #152
Quote: Originally Posted by Ghorsh View Post
I don't know...
- Standing on fleet station all the time…
You could also fly to the planet the level range is for the Flashpoint also. I'll ask at The Fleet, and then after a few minutes fly to a planet and ask there, and usually get more response from people there, since they are not necessarily hanging out at The Fleet. They can then use the Emergency Fleet Pass and get back quickly, pending its not on the 18 hour CD.

When you are at The Fleet you are asking from a pool of players from ranges 10 - 50, when you go to specific level ranged planets, you are asking from a pool of players within the flashpoint range, thus giving you more people that will actually come and join.

xlDARKSIDElx's Avatar


xlDARKSIDElx
12.23.2011 , 09:08 AM | #153
I like the idea of having a group finder after a few months of launch and servers have had a chance to develop and grow. Its too early for them to implement a finder tool so early on.
"Who I am is not important, my message is."
―Revan

ZeroNeutral's Avatar


ZeroNeutral
12.23.2011 , 09:12 AM | #154
Quote: Originally Posted by Ohnoto View Post
4 replies in a row all stating you are for a dungeon finder... Can you use the edit button next time?

I quoted this one for the arguments you pointed.

Argument 1:
In Cross Dungeon groupings, people are not social. While what you say works and sounds good on paper, it does not work in practice. People queue up for a dungeon, they go in and start pulling. If you get into a group where a player even says "Hi", you got a socializing group. Most players, not all, but most that I have been in, when they die even once, they just leave instead of working things out like a team. Can this happen without a cross dungeon tool? Absolutely, but it happens a lot less.

Argument 2:
Ninja'ing does happen more. People will just hit need if they can wear an item. Yes, you can kick them, but that is after the damage is done, and then you will never see them again. You could go to their server and say something, but then you only look like a fool. There are no consequences for players actions. If a player ninja's items on their own server, their name gets around as someone to not group up with. With the surnames being account bound, you can now even know who they are if their surname is shown. Thus, there are consequences for players actions. If you are rude to those in the group, people will group with you less.
I edited many of my posts, I guess you have a lot to read then.

Re: Argument 1

You seem to think that the determining factor upon whether or not people will engage on a social activity in a group is dependent on people being recruited through a tedious method. If they are recruited by queueing, then they are not going to be social. This is clearly not the case. People are either social or not depending on their own personal reasons.

If someone leaves your group instead of working out a problem, that's because it's faster to re-queue than deal with non-sense. I don't blame them.

Another reason people are not chitty chatty is because they have their own agendas. Some want to get in and out. Some have done this so many times it's just second nature, etc. This is not a fault of a LFG tool.


Re: Argument 2

Ninja happens. This is not the fault of a LFG tool and it will not increase with use of the tool. I have never had a problem with Ninja looting in WoW, because WoW's loot system has been adapted to suit a LFG tool. Generally if someone can roll Need on an item, they can use it or everyone can also Need on it.

Ninjas do not appear with the advent of a LFG tool. If a player ninjas an item on their own server, there is a bunch of spam, people are put on ignore, no one cares, and things move on.

What happens if/when BW offers name changing services? Then that means there will be an increase in Ninjas right? Since an increase in Ninjas comes from the decrease in possible consequence for Ninja-ing. I.E. Name change in this case... Ninja can change their name and ninja again, now what? This is just a people problem and has nothing to do with a LFG tool.



We're not talking about Cross-Server guilds or something like that... it's a tool to find groups for flashpoints and hopefully operations.

LFG tool = Find a group easier.

LFG tool =/= Death of all society on a server and the appearance of armies of Ninja Looters.
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ZeroNeutral's Avatar


ZeroNeutral
12.23.2011 , 09:13 AM | #155
Quote: Originally Posted by Ohnoto View Post
You could also fly to the planet the level range is for the Flashpoint also. I'll ask at The Fleet, and then after a few minutes fly to a planet and ask there, and usually get more response from people there, since they are not necessarily hanging out at The Fleet. They can then use the Emergency Fleet Pass and get back quickly, pending its not on the 18 hour CD.

When you are at The Fleet you are asking from a pool of players from ranges 10 - 50, when you go to specific level ranged planets, you are asking from a pool of players within the flashpoint range, thus giving you more people that will actually come and join.
Or if you're smart you can just use the /who tool and type the planet's name in, saving you a trip entirely. But, wait, then that's cross-planet LFG... uh oh there's goes the society and here comes the ninjas?
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Ohnoto's Avatar


Ohnoto
12.23.2011 , 09:43 AM | #156
Quote: Originally Posted by ZeroNeutral View Post
Re: Argument 1

You seem to think that the determining factor upon whether or not people will engage on a social activity in a group is dependent on people being recruited through a tedious method. If they are recruited by queueing, then they are not going to be social. This is clearly not the case. People are either social or not depending on their own personal reasons.

If someone leaves your group instead of working out a problem, that's because it's faster to re-queue than deal with non-sense. I don't blame them.

Another reason people are not chitty chatty is because they have their own agendas. Some want to get in and out. Some have done this so many times it's just second nature, etc. This is not a fault of a LFG tool.


Re: Argument 2

Ninja happens. This is not the fault of a LFG tool and it will not increase with use of the tool. I have never had a problem with Ninja looting in WoW, because WoW's loot system has been adapted to suit a LFG tool. Generally if someone can roll Need on an item, they can use it or everyone can also Need on it.

Ninjas do not appear with the advent of a LFG tool. If a player ninjas an item on their own server, there is a bunch of spam, people are put on ignore, no one cares, and things move on.

What happens if/when BW offers name changing services? Then that means there will be an increase in Ninjas right? Since an increase in Ninjas comes from the decrease in possible consequence for Ninja-ing. I.E. Name change in this case... Ninja can change their name and ninja again, now what? This is just a people problem and has nothing to do with a LFG tool.

We're not talking about Cross-Server guilds or something like that... it's a tool to find groups for flashpoints and hopefully operations.

Where are you pulling your arguments from? In the first one you say "If they are recruited by queueing, then they are not going to be social." What are you talking about, guild recruiting? I'm confused by this statement, since you later refer to cross-server guilds, something that no one has ever mentioned or suggested in this thread, let's at least try to stay on topic with arguments.

By stating "If someone leaves your group instead of working out a problem, that's because it's faster to re-queue than deal with non-sense. I don't blame them." ,you support the mentality of "get in and get out as quickly as possible, which means no socializing, even though you are stating cross server queuing doesn't hinder socializing, when in reality it does.

It sounds like you never played MMO's prior to within the last 2 years. If you had, you'd know, as many others have stated here, that getting groups didn't take any longer than a dungeon queue, and in many cases it was quicker once you were known on your server. Then after these systems came along, people just didn't know others on their server, people don't group up with anyone on their server, it is just an empty shell with a name.

On to ninjas, again... you can have every system in the world to detour ninjas, but behind the cloak of anonymity, and without any repercussions, there is just more of this.

By stating "If a player ninjas an item on their own server, there is a bunch of spam, people are put on ignore, no one cares, and things move on.", you state that no one cares, however, if no cared, they wouldn't talk about it and they wouldn't be put on ignore. Again, you are countering your own arguments. People with groups on their own server know, or will find out shortly, that there are consequences for being rude in groups, they won't get them done.

Erollisi's Avatar


Erollisi
12.23.2011 , 10:00 AM | #157
Quote: Originally Posted by Ohnoto View Post
How do you pick what few servers are separated from the rest. If you mark or announce that there is a clump of servers that don't queue with everyone, there will be even more people upset.

Many will be upset that they don't get to queue with everyone, and many will be upset that to do any flashpoint they have to cross queue. Then people will be mad that it wasn't announced when the game started and they would have to re-roll on a different server if they wanted to be part of a cross queuing server or not.

It is no secret from this thread that I am opposed to a cross server dungeon finder, but based on your suggestion, I think about what if my server was picked as one that would have that cross server dungeon finder. I wouldn't like it.
They'll allow for mass server transfers Ohnoto. You'll be able to FREE OF CHARGE transfer to/from that server during this date. A NECESSARY PRICE to uphold the balance required of this game to please its considerably divergent playerbase. If the game "Rift" can allow free server transfers from all to all servers, I'm sure SWTOR can allow this.

Relatedly, this is a temporary luxury. This game is still a business and as such these things cannot remain free. Also, it may only be to a set other of servers(of matching type aka pvp as opposed to pvp). But afterwards you will still be able to transfer off, For a price.

Relatedly to your response, you see why cross servers AND "Non cross server servers" SHOULD Have been a feature to ship with the game? People shouldn't be worrying about losing their community, JUST as much as people shouldn't be going without this feature they rightfully claim should already be in the game.

Also, by reading your response, Odd to hear you'd rather you didn't even have the option at all to reroll on such a server(given one or the other). I think people would at least be pleased to have "THAT" option.

This btw folks is a response to my earlier post last page about having some non cross server servers included in a game WITH a strong hive(20-30) cross server servers also in it.
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Andrewie's Avatar


Andrewie
12.23.2011 , 10:11 AM | #158
I would very much not like to see a "dungeon finder system".

Especially a cross realm one. Simply because the experience with anonymous strangers tend to be either unpleasant, or it tends to be completely silent.

If it is extremely important to be able to get some flashpoint action quickly and spontanously in this game, I would much prefer some kind of NPC-goons-for-hire system (like guildwars had) than a WoW-style "dungeon finder". Especially if the latter comes with trivialized content as it did for WoW.

lanozid's Avatar


lanozid
12.23.2011 , 07:49 PM | #159
Quote: Originally Posted by Andrewie View Post
I would very much not like to see a "dungeon finder system".

Especially a cross realm one. Simply because the experience with anonymous strangers tend to be either unpleasant, or it tends to be completely silent.

If it is extremely important to be able to get some flashpoint action quickly and spontanously in this game, I would much prefer some kind of NPC-goons-for-hire system (like guildwars had) than a WoW-style "dungeon finder". Especially if the latter comes with trivialized content as it did for WoW.
I´d like both. In my opinion a sytem like WOW´s dungeon finder is a must today as it is very annoying spamming chat channels for a potentially long time until the group is set up. Filling up groups with NPC´s (possibly even having only 1 real player in a party) would be very nice but I doubt it will happen, as a lot of people would complain about it turning the game into a solo player game (even though MMOs are not necessarily about grouping but about the "living" world).

gangbot's Avatar


gangbot
12.23.2011 , 10:19 PM | #160
Been in the fleet station for 2 hours now, trying to make or looking for a group... people are simply out in the zones doing quests.

i have tanked a few instances a few days back, during the flashpoint nobody talked and people did ninja items.

LFG tool does not ruin the game, PEOPLE DO. These morons will still do the same even without the tool.

A flashpoint finder that gets people from your server will be good.
Revenge is a dish best served cold.