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Jedi vs Adeptus Astartes (space marines)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Jedi vs Adeptus Astartes (space marines)

malevolunze's Avatar


malevolunze
01.14.2012 , 06:04 PM | #1
So who do you think would win in a fight between a jedi and a space marine from the warhammer 40k universe?

Personally i beleive that the only way a jedi would be able to defeat a space marine is with the force as a lightsaber would be mitigated by a marines energy sheild and if the jedi was fighting a grey knight i think that nemesis force weapons would be able to parry the lightsaber. Also the jedi robes are no match for things like bolters,lascannons,plasma cannons,chain swords etc... And even then the vastly superior physical capabilities of the space marine would likely be able to keep up with the jedis force attacks unless they were incredibly powerfeul. In the end i then beleive that a jedi would lose to a space marine most of the time.

But if you have any other reasons why these two iconic warriors of their franchises would beat each other then please share.

jlimp's Avatar


jlimp
01.14.2012 , 06:19 PM | #2
I tend to think that a Jedi is equivilant to a Space Marine Librarian, just without armor. The Jedi can use multiple powers, like the Librarian, even before the battle brother is aware of him. I think the Jedi holds all the cards in this fight with the exception of the raw strength of the Space Marine. The lightsaber makes a mockery of power armor and the Jedi can just block the bolt shells. The lascannon makes no difference because the lightsaber can also block starfighter-type laser weapons. The powers that the Jedi wields more than makes up for whatever advanced systems the Space Marine has in his armor. I don't see this as much of a contest, unless the Space Marine already has the Jedi in his grip and is squeezing.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
01.14.2012 , 07:00 PM | #3
As Vader once said

"Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed, the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force."

So...ya thinking jedi would win, the force can pretty much do anything.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

malevolunze's Avatar


malevolunze
01.14.2012 , 07:23 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
As Vader once said

"Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed, the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force."

So...ya thinking jedi would win, the force can pretty much do anything.
True but only those who are one with the force can do anything and i think only jacen solo is the only one who did that while he was still alive.

Foxfirega's Avatar


Foxfirega
01.14.2012 , 07:45 PM | #5
I think it all depends highly on context. Are we assuming 'average' representatives of both sides (and ignoring some of the things 'exceptional' members can do by virtue of their exceptional status)? Or are we assuming a 'best of' scenario? That can get a little more tricky, as the power-bar swings in an absurd manner when dealing with the Jedi Order's absolute greatest, though the Space Marine chapters 'greatest' can do some patently ridiculous things for just one lone man.

Examining the situation between an 'average' Jedi vs. an 'average' Space Marine Battle Brother, it depends on who gets the drop. The majority of the advantage is in the Space Marine's court, as if he gets the drop it's game over, and even if he doesn't, it depends on if the Jedi will attempt a deflection of bolter rounds or not. If it moves into close-combat, the Marine can still leverage a higher 'baseline' combat skillset and can generally survive the loss of body parts for a brief enough period to at least force a draw. I'd give it to the Jedi in a 70/30 ratio if they did get the drop, though. In a straight-up confrontation at an 'ideal' range for both, I'd say it's more 60/40 in favor of the Marine (and 80/20 if the Marine gets the drop). Averaging it out, that's 170 vs. 130 in favor of the Jedi.

That's factoring in the fact that your average Battle Brother is fully capable of dealing with precognitive opponents in light armor with deceptive range on a regular basis (Farseer vs. Space Marine) in close-combat and even at range and still coming out ahead (barring telepathic combat or the Farseer getting first-shot and having Eldritch Storm, in which case, sucks to be the Marine) and one that can generally ignore the armor they have. Looking at it, beyond the WS/BS ratings, a standard Eldar Farseer has roughly equivlant statlines to what you would expect an average Jedi to have anyway. Likely closer to a Warlock with Farseer psychic powers, though.

Best-of the Jedi Order vs. Best of the Space Marines, though? That becomes more subjective and isn't something I'd readily hand to the Space Marine on a one-off encounter scenario, even if we assume the greatest ever Librarians to exist (though it would probably be a thoroughly metal fight scene). Again, a lot of the issue is going to be in what we're actually considering for the fight itself. There's a lot of variables that can be thrown into it.
'Your name is in the mouth of others - be sure it has teeth.' - Maxim 16, The Seventy Maxims of Maximally Effective Mercenaries

jarjarloves's Avatar


jarjarloves
01.14.2012 , 08:01 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
As Vader once said

"Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed, the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force."

So...ya thinking jedi would win, the force can pretty much do anything.
I love that line because every time I hear it I think... Yeah blowing up a planet is still a greater power then shooting lighting bolts out of your hand or even force choking someone.

jarjarloves's Avatar


jarjarloves
01.14.2012 , 08:04 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Foxfirega View Post
I think it all depends highly on context. Are we assuming 'average' representatives of both sides (and ignoring some of the things 'exceptional' members can do by virtue of their exceptional status)? Or are we assuming a 'best of' scenario? That can get a little more tricky, as the power-bar swings in an absurd manner when dealing with the Jedi Order's absolute greatest, though the Space Marine chapters 'greatest' can do some patently ridiculous things for just one lone man.

Examining the situation between an 'average' Jedi vs. an 'average' Space Marine Battle Brother, it depends on who gets the drop. The majority of the advantage is in the Space Marine's court, as if he gets the drop it's game over, and even if he doesn't, it depends on if the Jedi will attempt a deflection of bolter rounds or not. If it moves into close-combat, the Marine can still leverage a higher 'baseline' combat skillset and can generally survive the loss of body parts for a brief enough period to at least force a draw. I'd give it to the Jedi in a 70/30 ratio if they did get the drop, though. In a straight-up confrontation at an 'ideal' range for both, I'd say it's more 60/40 in favor of the Marine (and 80/20 if the Marine gets the drop). Averaging it out, that's 170 vs. 130 in favor of the Jedi.

That's factoring in the fact that your average Battle Brother is fully capable of dealing with precognitive opponents in light armor with deceptive range on a regular basis (Farseer vs. Space Marine) in close-combat and even at range and still coming out ahead (barring telepathic combat or the Farseer getting first-shot and having Eldritch Storm, in which case, sucks to be the Marine) and one that can generally ignore the armor they have. Looking at it, beyond the WS/BS ratings, a standard Eldar Farseer has roughly equivlant statlines to what you would expect an average Jedi to have anyway. Likely closer to a Warlock with Farseer psychic powers, though.

Best-of the Jedi Order vs. Best of the Space Marines, though? That becomes more subjective and isn't something I'd readily hand to the Space Marine on a one-off encounter scenario, even if we assume the greatest ever Librarians to exist (though it would probably be a thoroughly metal fight scene). Again, a lot of the issue is going to be in what we're actually considering for the fight itself. There's a lot of variables that can be thrown into it.

Theres something I hadn't thought about Deflecting Bolter rounds. Space marines don't use blasters so I can't say that a lightsaber would be able to defelct a Bolt.

however I suppose it could melt it. But if it doesn't vaporize the bolt round then the Jedi would just have a slug of melted bolt heading straight towards him.

Or since it's explosive it could just detonate when it hits the light saber which would hurt the Jedi.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
01.14.2012 , 08:08 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by jarjarloves View Post
I love that line because every time I hear it I think... Yeah blowing up a planet is still a greater power then shooting lighting bolts out of your hand or even force choking someone.
I mean what normal people relied on to kill someone was a blaster or some kinda doomsday weapon. However for jedi/sith, they had no need for such things in fact the most powerful shouldn't have even needed a lightsaber they could kill anyone just by using the force alone.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Foxfirega's Avatar


Foxfirega
01.14.2012 , 08:15 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by jarjarloves View Post
Theres something I hadn't thought about Deflecting Bolter rounds. Space marines don't use blasters so I can't say that a lightsaber would be able to defelct a Bolt.

however I suppose it could melt it. But if it doesn't vaporize the bolt round then the Jedi would just have a slug of melted bolt heading straight towards him.

Or since it's explosive it could just detonate when it hits the light saber which would hurt the Jedi.
There's a reason that a lot of people that hunt Jedi lean towards incendiary, explosive, sonic, or projectile weaponary in order to do so. Most of them aren't really prepared to handle it, and certainly not at close quarters. In certain eras, Jedi-hunting was a dangerous but not exactly 'rare' task (and in certain eras, for certain military or criminal outfits, they had entire specialized individuals that did nothing BUT hunt Jedi/Sith).

Exceptional members vary significantly, and at longer ranges there's a good chance they could Force Push/Bubble a deflection that way and still negate the attack (even for an 'average' Jedi), but that opens them up for other forms of attack as well (as it takes more concentration to do so).

I'm also only assuming that the Space Marine has the standard Tactical or Assault layout (close combat weapon, bolter, bolt pistol, grenades; Assault Marines forego the bolter entirely). No special weapons. Similarly, I'm assuming that the 'average' Jedi doesn't have anything but what they normally carry (a lightsaber).
'Your name is in the mouth of others - be sure it has teeth.' - Maxim 16, The Seventy Maxims of Maximally Effective Mercenaries

mecher's Avatar


mecher
01.14.2012 , 09:00 PM | #10
Why compare, just look at the Eldar in the 40k universe.

Pretty much Jedi in many ways. Farseers with their pysic powers, etc.