People who ninja for their companions

I think most people reasonably agree that if you are concerned about this issue, speaking up at the formation of the group will solve the problem. If someone agrees to a group's rules at the start, then breaks those rules later, they're in the wrong. Not for rolling need, but for lying to their group. I think everyone agrees with this.

Most people, however, don't do that. And the people that do it aren't bad players because of their stance on companions... they're bad players because they lied to their group. That's different altogether.

I personally think the pro-need group (not the extremists, but the people that genuinely think it's a valid roll) have some good points. The truth is, companions are different in this game. They aren't just pets and they aren't alts. They are a fundamental part of your character. You can equip them, and more importantly, equipment bound to you works on them. Gearing that companion will help you significantly when grouping up with just 1 or 2 other people. It can be helpful in group settings. It's also fair for them to think that Bioware doesn't consider this a big deal, since BW's only reaction has been a single post from one person that inferred (but didn't promise) a change might come, and strongly recommended the players work it out for themselves.

On the other hand, the pro-greed side makes some valid points. Conventional wisdom in MMOs has always been that need is for the player character and nothing more. Anybody that says it isn't is truly being dishonest. That was the norm for as long as NBG has been around. Sure, there are always people that break it, but those people aren't justification to break it yourself. It's also a reasonable argument to say that - since everyone has multiple companions with multiple stats - rolling for a companion equates to the end of NBG altogether because 1. you can't verify if the person is being honest and 2. the odds of actual player characters getting the item is dramatically lowered. It's also a fair argument that most (not all, but most) players will gear their player character before they'd gear their companion, which shows that player characters are considered more important. Lastly, it's perfectly reasonable for them to assume Bioware agrees. While not proof, there was a post from a Bioware employee that strongly inferred that they are in the greed camp, for whatever reason. While not proof, the inference is clear.

After some thought, I personally think that companions should only get a need roll if that particular companion participated in the group content. I think that's a fair compromise and fits with the traditional concept of NBG.

That said, however, I think my opinion is unrealistic. I think the realistic option is to speak up when you join/form a group, but if no clear rule is set, the assumption should be that people are rolling need for their companions. Why should we assume that? Because the need camp can have it their way without saying a word. The greed camp quite literally can't. The fact is, companions in this game have subtly changed the paradigm, so there isn't a "conventional wisdom." To assume so is basically just setting yourself up for missing out on the gear.

TL;DR: No matter who's right or who's wrong or who should be the one to speak up, if you want to make sure you have a fair shot at the gear, speak up at the formation of the group. If you don't, there's really not a fair justification for getting mad later because (IMO) there's not a universal consensus on the importance of a companion. So yeah... just speak up.

This is, I think, the longest post I've ever written.

Anything the player character can wear or use (EQ had a number of clickies that fell into this category, wow has pets and mounts). companions are part of my player character.

The same is true for people who claim need for any other reason.

in particular, I remember one guy repeatedly claiming need in Bastion of thunder (in some of the groups that actually did NBG), on the plate bracer mold. Somehow, he kept managing to lose them instead of actually making himself the bracers...

No, the chance of an actual player character getting the item is 100%, either way.

I'd love to see this. But, then it's not much different than taking it out altogether. Just give 1 random person a drop. And I'm fine with that, too lol. If they want to keep the NEED/GREED system in, it needs to be modified to account for the differences in opinions that some people have on how it should work.

No, it's a derogatory term that doesn't actually apply to this game*, since it's not possible to loot something that hasn't been awarded to you.

*without turning the NBG system off or fiddling with the threshold, if the latter is an option


you should be able to loot what you want, for the reasons that you want it.

You just aren't entitled to dictate those reasons to anyone else.

so, unless you think you are entitled to dictate to other people what they are allowed to want, I care what you think.

sith marauders have no companions they can give hand-me-downs

Companions aren't part of the player character. The player character is the character you created at the start of the game. Companions are companions to the player character. They're something new. I'm not talking about their importance, but they - quite literally - are not the player character. How important they are TO the player character is what's up for debate.

Maybe we're operating under a different definition of player character here, but companions and your character are - literally - two different things. How integrated they are into the value of your character is different, but to say they ARE your character simply isn't true. Corso Riggs is not my main character. He's a companion to that main character.

To say he's an absolutely integral part of my main's progression is perfectly valid. But to say he IS that character simply isn't true.

Certainly they are.

I have 6 wrist slots. 2 of them need light armor with willpower, 2 of them heavy with aim, 2 of them medium cunning.

EVERYONE who's ever played in a NBG game has been burned by it... countless times. Heck, in WOW's new Raid finder tool, it's almost impossible to win anything because everyone needs everything they can just because the button's lit up. And that same mind set started to pour over into the dungeon finding tool as well after a while making it happen there very frequently as well (it happened in the tool before the raid finder, but not as much). With that said, that doesn't mean I'm personally going to ruin someone else's time by doing it myself. I just ignore the people who do it and move on. Either way, from your earlier post, it doesn't look like you typically do it either, so I really don't have anything else to argue with you about.

Exactly why I don't pug and I'm not regretting it whatsoever. Because of the greedy and selfish players out there who can justify rolling need for anything (alts, companions, RP) I will never pug because BW gives me zero incentive to do so.

Just to play the fair game with you for a bit.. Being able to roll need on anything is already unfair to certain classes. Bounty hunters only have companions with aim and cunning. Sith warriors. Bounty hunters have a 50% chance of having an item drop they have a need on, while sith warriors have a 100% chance. I think its fair that each person only roll on their own characters primary stat, giving each member a 25% chance of loot dropping.

Which is right? Neither because "fair" is an idealist concept that is fairly subjective and essentially impossible in the real world. Its a stupid argument.