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Notes on BioChem and Cybertech in Game Update 1.1

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Notes on BioChem and Cybertech in Game Update 1.1
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Karkais's Avatar

01.17.2012 , 07:14 PM | #501
Quote: Originally Posted by SithEBM View Post
Why don't they fix the other crew skills first?
The nail that sticks up gets hammered down, huh

Quote: Originally Posted by alibutterfly View Post
So, let me see if I understand.

The goal here is to make Biochem/Cybertech less desirable (or in some cases, mandatory, depending on the "leetness" of your group leader).

In order to do this, the highest level crafted consumables (and/or reusable consumables) have been lowered in effectiveness. However, they are still the highest level crafted consumables available, efficiency nerf or no.

And now you also have to have the highest level available in their respective skill trade to use them at all.

I fail to see how this makes either skill LESS appealing. If anything, I would expect MORE people would now find it beneficial to have these skills themselves since they cannot buy the items for use if they do not have the corresponding max level crew skill.

Maybe I'm missing something
I also think that the changes are illogical. A solid first step to not make biochem a requirement, would be to allow trading of the stims.. Not making the BoP or require Biochem to use.. which is in my opinion is as much a requirement to have biochem as it can possibly be.
"What is a Sith? Over time, the beliefs have changed, but one constant has remained. The imposition of one's will on the force, on the environment surrounding one, on the galaxy itself." - Darth Wyyrlok III

DEuZZ's Avatar

01.17.2012 , 07:34 PM | #502
Yet again should pvp destroy a game.. Make sense we who are BIOCHEM will get longer cooldown on our stims then others... We gonna get punish for our professions???? it's normal that when you have a profession you have some advantage, if you feel they heal to much reduce heal then if you MUST! but don't mess with the cooldown, this way our healing stims will be useless, and we need use normal stims like others since they will be "OP" now..

And i remeber you guys talking before launch of the game that you would focus most on pve, now with this change you are planing you're destroying the pots for PVE... Ask yourself if you was playing the game (not sure you do) and you had choice use your own healing stims that had increased cooldown timer but heal small amount more.. OR use normal stims that still had 90 sec cooldown and heal almost the same, would you really use your own? i think not...
Frankly i'm VERY surprised you are really planing on doing this... I really hope you will not turn out and do ALL needy and whiny people tell you too, if you do, this mmo is over for me.

Victius Sorcerer
“Peace Through Tyranny.”

ConfinedManiac's Avatar

01.17.2012 , 07:51 PM | #503
If anything reading this thread has made me realize how dumb it was to spend all those credits leveling up artiface and that even post nerf, biochem is the way to go.

kristoffbrujah's Avatar

01.17.2012 , 08:32 PM | #504
Getting silly, really.

I went Cyber and Biochem on my main and alt simply because none of the others were worthwhile.

Until Bioware addresses the inherent flaws in other crafting skills, not Biochem, everyone will still go Biochem.

Peacenote's Avatar

01.17.2012 , 09:16 PM | #505
Agree with everyone that the issue is much bigger than BioChem. The problem is NOT that it is "must have" end game, but rather that there aren't any other "must haves" to compete with.

All professions should give an edge in some way. The trick more, I would think, is to make it so that at least two professions would give an edge end game to each potential role in the game (tank, heal, dps, pvp) and only one can be had, so a decision must be made by the player as to what better suits playstyle. All professions should offer something unique or something higher quality than what the game offers through vendors as well.

Lately it seems very popular for MMOs to say "crafting shouldn't be required" and frankly I think this is where the problem lies. Why even bother putting the feature in the game if it isn't needed to fully experience the game? I don't want a crafting system with few benefits, a clunky, frustrating auction house, and a dead economy. I want a satisfying crafting system that drives me to use it because I can make money and have something to show for the time I've put into it.

I think all of this "you don't need to craft" is games trying to have their cake and eat it too. Stop catering to the people who don't want to enjoy this part of the game and cater to those that do!! Everything doesn't have to be "fair" and the game should give advantages to people who explore all facets of it.

EternusIV's Avatar

01.17.2012 , 09:17 PM | #506
Bioware is at least listening -- however, crafting has a long way to evolve.

I'll be eager to see how the crafting changes a few months from now when I consider a resub.
"I like Pie"

Valcutio's Avatar

01.17.2012 , 09:33 PM | #507
Quote: Originally Posted by EternusIV View Post
Bioware is at least listening -- however, crafting has a long way to evolve.

I'll be eager to see how the crafting changes a few months from now when I consider a resub.
Bioware never listened during beta, they aren't listening now.

Server forums are an excellent example of this.
-Mask of Nihilus Server-
"I'm a good guy, I just do bad things." - Valcutio

PuppetSoul's Avatar

01.17.2012 , 09:35 PM | #508
Quote: Originally Posted by GeorgZoeller View Post
As some of you may have already noticed from our patch notes for Game Update 1.1, we’ve made adjustments to several high-end, purple, player crafted items on the BioChem and Cybertech professions. Simply put, we reduced their overall impact on gameplay and I wanted to explain why it was necessary.
It was never that Biochem was too good.

It's that the other professions are pointless.

RandomUser's Avatar

01.17.2012 , 09:54 PM | #509
Quote: Originally Posted by Lord_Itharius View Post
So long as I get to keep my reusable stims/adrenals, no nerf is overboard.

To the people saying Biochem isn't OP because you can buy non-bop adrenals and stims... well yeah, you can, but who would waste stims and adrenals in PvP or on PvE trash? Having reusable stims/adrenals effectively improves your performance by a wide margin, even if they aren't limited to Biochem when considering non-reusables, because of the expense of using non-reusable stims/adrenals.

If anyone regularly uses non-bop adrenals in PvP besides the expertise adrenals, feel free to call me out on my claim.
I use them constantly. My character's self buffs and heals were on each toolbar.

I sent extra stims to guildmates and my other character, so all, I would say four different characters use these stims. In both PVP and PVE.

I fear that this casual attitude towards changing crafting is a really bad sign of things to come. The gimping of the handful of benefits offered by the two useful crafting skills just about puts the last nail in the coffin of effective crafting.

I really wish that instead of worrying about the unnecessary "fixes" made to crafting in the last few patches, maybe some of the serious bugs and flaws would get some attention.

Altairien's Avatar

01.17.2012 , 10:18 PM | #510
Quote: Originally Posted by GabeAmatangelo View Post
Currently there are several Armormech, Armstech, Synthweaving and Artifice recipes that can be found in end game content. We will be adding more in future updates.
If by "end game content" you mean group gated end game content, then count me against. I have no evidence either way, but it probably is since "that's how WoW does it" and Bioware too often insists on emulating the bad from WoW.

Furthermore, even if the recipes are available via solo end game (Bioware did add that as promised, right?), but are BoP, then count me against again. If I get a recipe to drop, but it isn't for the crew skill that my current character has, I should be able to pass it to an alt, family member, guild member, someone who can get use out of it.

I don't agree with BoP for anything crafting (see exception below). End items, materials, recipes, nothing should be BoP. I don't know of anyone, manufacturer or craftsman, who makes anything in this world, but they alone are able to utilize it. BoP != rewarding. BoP recipes and materials are extremely frustrating to me as a crafter. BoP recipes and materials gated by group content are especially egregious.

Now, to be constructive, I have to propose solutions and I am here to do just that so read on Bioware. The way I'd address the current "BoP items make crafting rewarding" view is if those BoP items were the same as normal BoE items but were crafted using drastically reduced materials costs.

For example, take those BoP speeders that Slicers make. That's a lot of mats! Keep those mats as is (removing any BoP mats of course), change the speeders to BoE, but add an option to recipes that severely cuts the mats at the expense of making it BoP. Then Slicers can craft themselves that nice speeder for very little cost. This makes crafting "rewarding" while allowing crafters the ability to trade (or give away) ALL their wares to other players, not just the next to useless items.

Imagine, as an Artifice I can craft you a nice lightsaber using up all these materials, but I can craft one for myself for next to no mats. I can craft you color crystals, hilts, and enhancements, but I can craft the same things for myself for half (or less) the mats. Note that this change would require that these special "BoP" crafted items couldn't be reverse engineered thus keeping the material usage for crew skill leveling as currently intended.

Bioware, try knocking that idea around a bit or use it as a starting point. Try to come up with something different than what some other game did. I'd like to see the system improved. I will monitor posts and patch notes in the coming months in the hope that improvements (including removal of the current, in my opinion flawed, BoP restrictions) are imminent.