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How to make Armortech, Artificer, Synthweaving & Weapontech worth it 1-50 and beyond

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
How to make Armortech, Artificer, Synthweaving & Weapontech worth it 1-50 and beyond

nix_crash's Avatar


nix_crash
01.13.2012 , 12:59 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by jHats View Post
What you guys are failing to realize is that this game is NOT designed nor ever was supposed to be designed to make crafting the defacto way of getting gear.
and where's the problem with that?
just make so that the top level craft requires things (materials or single-use recipes) that you can get only from the same boss than the equivalent non-crafted item would be dropped an the progression-style gameplay is retained.

Quote:
3. Put a requirement on Grenades and Rakata medpacks for 400 skill of the appropriate professiona and bring the OP items like the Rakata medpac more in line with other professions. I would really love to see Grenades taken out of the game entirely or at least take the root off of them. There are MORE than enough roots in game already. There is probably more CCs in this game than 2-3 other MMOs combined lol.
this mostly look "_I_ dont get those grenades so nobody should get them" whining, as you said everybody got a crapton of CC in this game, what one more changes?

Aethyrprime's Avatar


Aethyrprime
01.13.2012 , 02:01 PM | #12
Wow ok lot to respond to.. I'll do that in a few segments. Firstly. Thanks for the feedback. Now to go back through them one at a time hehe.


Quote: Originally Posted by Raant View Post
I think this is a great idea in terms of how easy it can be implemented and to address some balance issues for profesions. Even so i think crafting needs a loooooooooooot more of improvement to be worthy of leveling up.
Thanks. And yes it does.

Quote: Originally Posted by Raant View Post
Gathering Skills -----------
Scavenging: Remove a DoT effect.
Bio: Healing ability.
Arqueology: Boost on speed for a shor period of time.

Mission Skills --------------
Note:This bonuse for every 10 levels up to +5 at level 50. And considering u get a high enough skills level. For example u get the first bonus just for having the crew skill and u can access the other bonuses at 100, 200, 300 and 400.
Underworld Traiding: +1 Power.
Diplomacy: +1 Accuracy.
Investigation: +1 Critical.
Tresure Hunting: +1 Surge.
While that idea does sound neat at first glance after thinking about it my fear would be it would pigeon hole the crewskills based on advanced class/spec choices and would make it painful if you wanted to swap and the bonuses didn't stack well.
It's my personal opinion only that all of the bonuses should be a choice open to all where it makes sense, force with force and non force with non force. So in maintaining the principal of giving such bonuses directly like a datacron. I hope that makes sense.

Quote: Originally Posted by Raant View Post
Sorry for my english but i am not used to write in english very often.
You did fine!

Aethyrprime's Avatar


Aethyrprime
01.13.2012 , 02:12 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by nix_crash View Post
I would like to go further and just remove any un-moddable item, the mod system is great and its potentially a lot better than any other "wardrobe" system.
giving the ability to crafter to learn the recipe and sell the "look" of an item, not just his stats, could be a rich niche.
I agree in your final points but I think there's a certain segment of players that just prefer simplicity which is why I offered just letting us reverse engineer every pattern in the game to a mod item would at least be a cross over between the two. Even tho I personally would prefer your suggestion over mine, I don't think it would draw as many players to it favorably. I could be wrong tho.

Quote: Originally Posted by nix_crash View Post
more or less the same idea I had - my main fear with this is that it would create a pretty hefty power level runoff, everything (pve and pvp wise) would need to be rebalanced around the new power levels and the balance damage doable/ damage soackable / healing would change a lot in pvp.

not an impossible task, it just requires a lot of time to do.
Right now balance needs to be looked at anyway with the presence of stims. So adjusting the playfield for the other crewskills together sounded like a good idea to me at the time!

Quote: Originally Posted by nix_crash View Post
and obv. it should be pretty clear that the bonuses -requires- that you still have the crafting skill or one would just learn all crafts and stack all bonuses becoming a monster.
Quote: Originally Posted by nix_crash View Post
they could move implants to cybertech to balance, biochem is balanced without them.
and what's more cyber than implants?
Not a bad suggestion. I could support this. How many others would tho?

Quote: Originally Posted by nix_crash View Post
there's proof that orange stuff its crittable, screens of at least two weapons with augment slot have been posted on the crafting forum.
its still unclear what are the requirements to crit.
That's good news to me.. I Just want to know what and how? :P I've never had it happen yet.

Aethyrprime's Avatar


Aethyrprime
01.13.2012 , 02:18 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Almagnus View Post
I think the mod change is needed.

From a user point of view, wouldn't the person making the armor know best how to make the armor mods? Synthweaver gets the force user armor mods, armortech gets the non-force user armor mods. Cybertech still keeps the mod mods.
Explained like this I have to say I really like this idea. It makes perfect sense.

Quote: Originally Posted by Almagnus View Post
So why not give BoP gear to each of the production professions:
  • Artifice
    • Full mod lightsabers with augment slots and innate stats. Dual lightsabers have a set bonus, while mod lightsabers have a set bonus with the offhands. Double bladed lightsabers may need to be adjusted to compensate (not sure if they get offhands or not).
    • Offhand and relics with enhancement, mod and augment slots aimed at force users
  • Armstech
    • All weapons have innate states, are full mod, have augment slots
    • Offhand and relics with enhancement, mod, and augment slots aimed at non-force users
    • Like artifice, armstech stuff has set bonuses.
  • Synthweaver
    • Set of force user armor w/ all slots + augment, armor has set bonuses
  • Armortech
    • Set of non-force user armor w/ all slots + augment, armor has set bonuses
  • Cybertech
    • Reusable grenades that make a difference.
    • Ship armor that beats the artifact (grade 6) stuff.
    • Modable Earpiece with enhancement, mod, and augment slots.
  • Biotech
    • In addition to retaining what it has already, crafted implants would (like the rest of the stuff) have set bonuses, and have enhancement, mod, and augment slots.

I'm hoping that's enough good gear to make crafting a viable option to raid gear (because you still need the rest of the gear to compensate for the stuff you can't make), and still keep the mod system viable end game - something which the game SHOULD embrace.
Now that it's put that way yes I tend to agree.. with some tweaking.. but all suggestions get "tweaked" by the dev's even if they use it... but I get the idea and like it.

Jekker's Avatar


Jekker
01.13.2012 , 02:19 PM | #15
The whole system should be scrapped. I personally never see a point to these "cookie cutter" crafting systems. The item you make can be made by every other player with the same skill. So it just boils down to who undercuts who on the Market.

Bring back the crafting system from Star Wars Galaxies, where you could mix and match different value mats to create something better.
I could care less. I could also care more, but I am rather happy with my current level of care, and will not have you pushing your silly assumptions upon me.

Quote: Originally Posted by Drowsiness View Post
Another man's junk is a Jawa's treasure.

xlDARKSIDElx's Avatar


xlDARKSIDElx
01.13.2012 , 02:22 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by jHats View Post
What you guys are failing to realize is that this game is NOT designed nor ever was supposed to be designed to make crafting the defacto way of getting gear.

Making an item fully moddable WITH an Augment slot coupled with the new upcoming changes that let you take out every mod in a piece of gear would essentially mean that you would HAVE to use a crafted item and that looted items would always be stripped and never used.

I don't know which developer is in charge of crew skills or who approved it, but they should get 3 days off w/o pay at the very least. Why IN THE WORLD would you give armormech nothing but... armor? Why would you give "Armoring" modifications to anyone but "ARMORmech?

I think there are better ways to go about making crafters relevant without trying to turn this into a crafter first type of game :


1. Give modifications to the classes that can use them.

Armormech : Aim / Cunning based armoring mods
Synthweaving : Strength / Willpower armoring mods
Armstech : Fine as is
Artifice : Fine as is
Biochem : Fine as is


2. Instead of tossing credits in the trash by pulling out mods, let professions do it like deconstructors / pokers in Neocron. If I have an Armoring modification that needs to come out, an Armormech or Synthweaver (based on the armor) would have to do it.


3. Put a requirement on Grenades and Rakata medpacks for 400 skill of the appropriate professiona and bring the OP items like the Rakata medpac more in line with other professions. I would really love to see Grenades taken out of the game entirely or at least take the root off of them. There are MORE than enough roots in game already. There is probably more CCs in this game than 2-3 other MMOs combined lol.


4. The BOP item that most classes (thinking armormech here) get at 400 is absurd. If its a BIS item, let it be so. The Rakata items should have an augment slot. Its only good for the next tier anyways. As it is now, it will be replaced in 1-2 months which is a bit short for a BIS crafted item. This is the main reason its not worth even going Armormech. I went 400 and realized it was worthless. Same with Sythweaving.


These are just some of the ideas I had. I think armormech and synthweaving should at the very least be given the armoring mods for their perspective professions. I would like to see Cybertech get more gadgets as well. With all of the mounts in game, you could have given cybertech more options other than 3. They could make vanity pets and other things.
Im with you on this one. Give the mods to the respective crafting types of each armor so that it is actually worth picking up. I am 400 in synthweaving and its pretty useless after you replace a couple of pre 50 crap gear.
"Who I am is not important, my message is."
―Revan

Aethyrprime's Avatar


Aethyrprime
01.13.2012 , 02:24 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Dextral View Post
First, great and good thought post.
Thanks!

Quote: Originally Posted by Dextral View Post
The problem I see with idea #2 (and also the BoP idea) is that if not designed very well, single crew skills could end up as cookie cutter skills for specific advanced classes.

I think the only way to circumvent this would be to give very generic effects to the skills which would benefit everyone. Herein I see a problem with diversity, but maybe some come up with great ideas for those effects.
Also even some effects that seem generic in reality are not [HoT benefit classes whose intend is to take damage (tanks) more than those who should avoid it at all (dps, heal) and similar].

Another - not really new - idea would be to make high-end OP/PvP gear craft-only with some or all parts dropping in the OPs or as goods from commendation vendors. In a healthy populated game it shouldn't give one able to find an OP group much trouble finding someone (in this group) who then could craft his gear. This is just the abstract of an greater draft as the whole idea would blast the purpose of this post.
I agree but that is why I think that each crewskill should "have something for everyone" approach taken in designing the BOP items. Basically. An additional way to augment our characters with special abilities. Think of it like this..

Bobba fett gets new arm bands.. Do his new arm bands look cool? Sure. But is that why he bough them? No he got them because they have a cord hidden inside and rocket mounts. Now Luke Skywalker also gets a pair of armbands, his come with a grappling hook. So two different armbands similar abilities, different everything else. Like "Customizing" the "Function" of the gear beyond just "+1 Stats".

I think we should be able to sell lower rarity versions for non native crewskill users to be fair but they would be limited to only a few and at lesser impact. Just like Biochem and their stims/medkits and Cybertech with their grenades.

Aethyrprime's Avatar


Aethyrprime
01.13.2012 , 02:31 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by jHats View Post
What you guys are failing to realize is that this game is NOT designed nor ever was supposed to be designed to make crafting the defacto way of getting gear.

Making an item fully moddable WITH an Augment slot coupled with the new upcoming changes that let you take out every mod in a piece of gear would essentially mean that you would HAVE to use a crafted item and that looted items would always be stripped and never used.
When you put it that way.. yeah augment slots should be removed I think in favor of a blend of ideas here in this thread of other posters in addition to mine including yours.

Quote: Originally Posted by jHats View Post
I don't know which developer is in charge of crew skills or who approved it, but they should get 3 days off w/o pay at the very least. Why IN THE WORLD would you give armormech nothing but... armor? Why would you give "Armoring" modifications to anyone but "ARMORmech?

I think there are better ways to go about making crafters relevant without trying to turn this into a crafter first type of game :


1. Give modifications to the classes that can use them.

Armormech : Aim / Cunning based armoring mods
Synthweaving : Strength / Willpower armoring mods
Armstech : Fine as is
Artifice : Fine as is
Biochem : Fine as is
As another posted something like this I just going to say yes again I support this concept both times!

Quote: Originally Posted by jHats View Post
2. Instead of tossing credits in the trash by pulling out mods, let professions do it like deconstructors / pokers in Neocron. If I have an Armoring modification that needs to come out, an Armormech or Synthweaver (based on the armor) would have to do it.
Good idea. Builds community.

Quote: Originally Posted by jHats View Post
3. Put a requirement on Grenades and Rakata medpacks for 400 skill of the appropriate professiona and bring the OP items like the Rakata medpac more in line with other professions. I would really love to see Grenades taken out of the game entirely or at least take the root off of them. There are MORE than enough roots in game already. There is probably more CCs in this game than 2-3 other MMOs combined lol.
This is being taken care of as I understand in 1.1

Quote: Originally Posted by jHats View Post
4. The BOP item that most classes (thinking armormech here) get at 400 is absurd. If its a BIS item, let it be so. The Rakata items should have an augment slot. Its only good for the next tier anyways. As it is now, it will be replaced in 1-2 months which is a bit short for a BIS crafted item. This is the main reason its not worth even going Armormech. I went 400 and realized it was worthless. Same with Sythweaving.
If the augment slots aren't totally removed from the game then there needs to be a way to add an augment slot to any piece of gear. Otherwise items which you get from vendors which are social or as quest rewards which are social will always be junk at end game with crit gear being the top in all cases.

Quote: Originally Posted by jHats View Post
These are just some of the ideas I had. I think armormech and synthweaving should at the very least be given the armoring mods for their perspective professions. I would like to see Cybertech get more gadgets as well. With all of the mounts in game, you could have given cybertech more options other than 3. They could make vanity pets and other things.
They are good ideas and I thank you for them!

Delurian's Avatar


Delurian
01.13.2012 , 02:41 PM | #19
As of right now I don't see even with bio and cybertech the pay off at end game. Just to get to 450 u can potenially spend 1mil+ not mention the time REing. Crafting should give u a reason to level it and continue to be usefull at endgame, but not a requirment to get there. I don't see why each class just has at least one thing, say for cybertech that all the best earpieces can only be crafted by 450 cybertrchs, or with armstech that te best barrels inhale can be made only by them. With that said they can't be impossible to get causing people to be excluded but they shouldn't be easy Toni rain either as this would make end game to easy.

Proposed special item for each of the crafting fields:

Armormech: move the armor mods from cybertech and make these exclusive armormech mods BoE and the top tier in game.

Armstech: the best obtainable barrels for all specs utilizing them can only be made by 450 armstech crafters.

Cybertech: best high end earpieces only available through cybertech crafters.

Artifice: best crystals in game only makeable by 450 artifice crafters.

Synthweaving: not super sure what to do with his class but follow the pattern with the rest to solve issue.

Biochem: best stimson in game available from biochem as BoP.


Through this method it would give reasons tocontjnue to craft after hitting level cap as well as aleiviatng hr issue of reqirin that crafting skill to be able to use top tier items which eliminates having to have just cybertech or biochem to be a viable player in end game situations.

I apologize for spelling and grammer as I'm doing this on a first gen iPod touch while at work lol.

BroadStreetBully's Avatar


BroadStreetBully
01.13.2012 , 03:09 PM | #20
If you want to guarantee that each class is needed, introduce repair kits. Decrease the speed by which items are damaged. However, when they need to be repairrd, don't allow players to go to a NPC trader to repair gear. Make them get item specific repair kits. For instance, if you lightsaber is damaged, buy an Artifice repair kit from an Artifice crafter. Each crafting skill could then have an Artifact quality repair kit that is bound to them. This would then compare to the unlimited health pack.

Also, as was mentioned previously, introduce resource qualities. Make recipes require a resource type but not a grade. The better grade resources make better items. Also, make higher resources harder to get or make them only available as drops.

Another issue can be that a profession line can do everything they need themselves. Make cross profession dependencies like an Armstech needs to buy a cybertech component to make a gun. This stimulates the economy because each profession has unique things that all other professions need. This could also curb Biotech by forcing them to get items from other professions.