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How to make Armortech, Artificer, Synthweaving & Weapontech worth it 1-50 and beyond

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
How to make Armortech, Artificer, Synthweaving & Weapontech worth it 1-50 and beyond

Aethyrprime's Avatar


Aethyrprime
01.12.2012 , 11:51 PM | #1
Firstly, I want to point out that this topic will not deal with the visual appearance of any of the items produced through these crewskills as taste is subjective. Additionally, I don't believe in the nerfs to Cybertech or Biochem that have happened. I don't want either nerfed more. I'd like both restored to their original usefulness and the rest of the crewskills boosted up to their level. That being said, I'd like to propose one minor suggestion before the big idea.

{PTR UPDATE}
PTR - Moddable gear can now crit for Augment slots!
This is bad in it's current form as it pigeon holes all gear to crafted vs all gear from raids/pvp. With the following suggestions this can be avoided.
{/PTR UPDATE}

Idea #1 - Reverse Engineering everything to a pattern.
It would be a boon to all users of these professions to be capable of Reverse Engineering all items of a matching type found in the game to a modifiable (gold) pattern. Even the white items found in shops that have no stats.

I think everyone could agree making every single awesome armor set & cool looking weapon in game available through this method would give a lot of longevity to your artists work and give players a nearly infinite number of possibilities when the final mod system is in place.
  • All Equipable/Usable items in game (shop purchasable, quest rewards, loot from mobs of any kind including raid mobs) can be Reverse Engineered to a pattern. More specifically for armor/weapons that you learn the appearance model & associated skins. (see below)
  • All items with enough effort through Reverse Engineering should become GOLD (Social/Mod) gear. This includes RAID gear. Why? Because RAID gear is technically the top and is all about stats in most cases but often has a nice style if a crafter can RE that item to a pattern that is gold (no stats on it) then it can be used by the those who fall in love with the look of it once that raid tier is trumped by the next newer raid tier and old gear becomes obsolete.

If you are dead set on keeping augments as they are then please at least let us craft something to socket it on to existing non crafted gear. Even if crits = free augment slot!

Now for the meat and potatoes of this topic.

Idea #2 - BOP Gear "Attachments" aka, clickables
As it stands even if my previous Idea #1 was implemented, still none of these crewskills would have anything to compete with the biochem/cybertech end game usefulness of creations as all gear can be found better elsewhere with effort.

What I propose is that each individual crewskill be given an assortment of item enhancements I'm calling "Attachments", the player can create which can be attached to their respective type of gear which would grant a clickable function.

Let's face it, Luke Skywalker & Bobba Fett, both made use of custom gear they had attached to their bodies such as the grappling hook for the famous swing with the Princess and the ever famous incinerators, rockets and wrist rope of the galaxy's most notorious bounty hunter.

These functions should have a gamut from lvl 10-50 on the same leveling curve as Biochem & Cybertech re-usables. Meaning every so many levels they could create a Bind on Pickup enhancement; Use it; Then select the piece of armor/weapon they wish to attach it too. Once attached the user will be able to drag n drop that item to their hotbar and click it as they would a relic for various effects.

Some suggested effects would be temporary stat buffs, or even mock versions of the various unique class skills in a much weaker form. Such as temporary speed boosts, temporary shielding, temporary damage buff, temporary defense buff, CC, CC-removal, Short term Heal over Time, and so on. Each would have a cool down just like a relic or a re-usable for Biochem and Cybertech.

I'll use Synthweaving as an example since it is the class I have maxed to 400 so can speak from personal experience. As we level up we get a lot of wrists, boots & gloves. Which is cool. Alternating levels we get Chest/Legs/Head (Possibly often with a pattern).
I suggest that in the "off-level" get an attachment for that slot. The following are very simple outlines for examples not a final expectation using only the wrist.

Wrist - Grappling Hook Attachment -
Activation: Instant
Range: 20 meters
Cool down: 5 minutes.
Effect: Fires a grappling hook at your target and pulls you to it. Chance to fail on targets above <y> level. Only one attachment can be used on an item.

Wrist - Rocket Attachment -
Activation: Instant
Range: 20 meters
Cool Down: 5 minutes
Effect: Fires a rocket at the target stunning for 2s and dealing <x> damage. Chance to fail on targets above <y> level. Only one attachment can be used on an item.

Wrist - Shield Attachment -
Activation: Instant
Range: 20 meters
Cool Down: 5 minutes
Effect: Places a shield which absorbs <X>% of the next <y> hits. Chance to fail on targets above <y> level. Only one attachment can be used on an item.

Wrist - Net Gun Attachment -
Activation: Instant
Range: 20 meters
Cool Down: 5 minutes
Effect: Fires a net at the target preventing it from moving for <x> seconds. Chance to fail on targets above <y> level. Only one attachment can be used on an item.

Some ideas for Armstech attachments

- grenade launcher (maybe rifle only)
ability: launches a grenade with some effect, e.g. knockdown or stun or blind
(differing launchers for each effect)

- improved energy converter (or insert any appropriate techno babble here)
passive bonus: basically a reduction of energy costs for weapon related abilities (agent/smuggler) (or a small bonus to energy)

- extended magazine / coolant system (or insert any appropriate techno babble here)
passive bonus: basically a slight (1?) increase of ammunition / heat capacity (trooper/bh)

Notes: The effects would start small and scale up to max level. This would make each of the listed crewskills useful even in an End Game Raiding/PvP environment as well as through out the leveling process. This would help to give players access to abilities they may feel they currently do not have available to them with their chosen class/spec. Each slot should have different types of effects from stat boosting to custom abilities like above and offer a full variety of options for any advanced role, healer, tank or dps so that no single crewskill becomes the defacto choice for all playing a particular advanced class and role.

Cybertech can make 5 grenades, Biotech various (exact number citation needed) stims, so I believe that the two armor making crewskills should have 1 "Attachment" for each slot. The weapon makers Attachments would need to be for main hand and offhand for both. Addtionally, I believe Artificer could be able to attach things to relics and/or earpieces (Making the ones without clickables worth something) and Weapontech place attachments on implants and/or ear pieces. Or allow both types of weapon makers to do both hand slots, ear slot and implant/relic slots. Or reserve certain slots for cybertech/biochem if a full rebalance were done with them included for trade offs elsewhere.

I thank you for your time in reading this long suggestion and appreciate any feedback that you might have. If you like this idea an occasional bump would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Idea #3 - Move the "Armor" type modifications out of cybertech and put them in to their respective crewskill.
(Note additions taken from Idea #6 below)

Force User Armoring, Armor Attachments, Tower Mods = Synthweaving
Non-Force User Armoring, Armor Attachments, Tower Mods = Armortech
Hilts, Crystals, Weapon & Utility Attachments, Tower Mods = Artificer
Barrels, Crystals, Weapon & Utility Attachments, Tower Mods = Weapontech.
Grenades, Modifications, Augments, Enhancements, Vehicles, Towers Chassis & Turrets = Cybertech
Stims, Implants, Kits, Tower Mods = Biochem

Idea #4 - General Crew Panel Improvements:
  • A crafter would see on their crew panel a "list of skins" for items to pick. (*Note pick the base model)
  • Next they would pick the skin color. (*Note pick the texture)
  • Next they would select from available learned rarity (ie, gold, purple, light purple, blue, green)
  • Next they would select from available learned prefix/suffix/stats
  • All items crafted have a chance at a mod slot from a critical including gold/mod gear (ie. advanced/mastercrafted)

The key differences here are cleaning up the messy list of tons and tons of patterns to sift through with a nice UI and how it compliments the suggested changes to crafting. How the stats would be assigned would be based on what the player knows. This could be using a similar system to what is present or something perhaps another person could suggest.

Idea #5 - Consumable Critical Success & Efficiency Boost Items
  • Give Cybertech the ability to craft a consumable item which increases crit chance or efficiency during crafting.
  • This item should be relatively easy to learn but in the mid range for cost to make.
  • It can be one item that works for all or it can be a custom item for each individual crafting crewskill.
  • This would help with the people complaining about too low of critical success chance rates and yet not touch the base critical success rate or reduce the time to craft a long chain of items where critical success is less of a factor such as "grinding up" a skill.

Idea #6 - PvP Resource Collection Towers
For more details on Resource Wars for Swtor check this link out.
  • CyberTech should be given the ability to create Turrets & Resource Gathering Towers chassis for objective based pvp.
  • These towers will be semi-permanent structures added to the game world in specified regions and follow specific placement rules. (see above link)
  • Towers will be consumed when used and thus be required to be restocked regularly when destroyed in pvp.
  • These towers will be modifiable to serve different purposes such as offensive turret, defensive turret or resource harvester through the use of modifications created by the various crewskills, such as weapons by arms tech, harvesters by artificer, etc.
  • These towers would harvest rare end game rafting materials granting pvp stats for use by all crewskills to craft end game pvp items (which should have valor rank based & level based usage requirements), for their guild. The harvested materials should be added to the guild vault with permissions on access for members of the guild.
  • Towers are faction vs faction locked for pvp rule set.

Idea #7 Crewskill modification and bonuses
This idea posted on page 15 is so great I had to copy it here. It's technically pointless to try to paraphrase it because the OP did such a great job of formatting and presentation so I'll just quote it in full instead. The key thing to keep in mind when reading this suggestion is that it should be a part of the "everything can be reverse engineered to a pattern". Without that addition parts of this idea specifically relating to the super charging of crafted goods "Manufacturing" doesn't work. The rest of the ideas however would work on their own. If everything can be RE'd to a pattern then this gets 100% of my support.

Quote: Originally Posted by Cemellyn View Post
The purpose is to give players with a preference for crafting another alternative for playing the game by introducing Crafting or Consignment missions. Completion of missions will reward character with specialization points which can be spent on skills to improve their crew skills.

Most Crafting Missions will require either
  • Donation of Credits (Variable amounts)
  • Donation of Raw Materials (Variable quality of variable amounts)
  • Donation of Crafted items (Variable quality of variable amounts)

Points can be spent on various Specialization Skills such as...

PROCUREMENT SKILLS

  1. Eye for a good deal (1/2/3) - Crew skills now cost (3/5/10)% cheaper

  2. Greater Yield (1/2/3) - Crew skills returns with more (3/5/10)% more items

  3. Successful Hunt (1/2/3) - Improves rate of success by (3/5/10)%

  4. Lucky Catch (1/2/3) - Crew skills that has a chance of finding artifact quality materials improves chance of getting artifact quality material by (3/5/7)%

__________________________________________________ _______________________

MISCELLANEOUS
  1. Waste Reduction (1/2/3) - Items that you RE yields better returns on raw material used.

  2. Good Salesmen (1/2/3) - Items that you sell to vendor yield (3/5/10)% higher returns

  3. Expert Haggler (1/2/3) - Items or Services from NPC vendors is cheaper by (3/5/10)%

  4. Efficiency (1/2/3) - Crew skills takes (2/3/5) % less time to complete.


__________________________________________________ _______________________

MANUFACTURING - ALL
  1. Built to last (1/2/3) - Items you craft has high durability by (3/5/7)%

  2. Durable (1/2/3) - Items you craft takes lower durability loss by (3/5/7)%

  3. Warranty Guaranteed (1/2/3) - Items that you craft cost (3/5/7)% less to repair

  4. Shock Resistance (1/2/3) - When wearer dies in PVE, there is a (3/6/9)% that durability will not be lost.

  5. Quality Control (1/2/3) - You have (1/3/5)% higher rates of a critical success to add an Augment slot to the item you crafted.

  6. Superior worksmanship (1/2/3) - Items you crafted will boost stats of the modifications place into it by (1/2/3)%

  7. Exceptional worksmanship - Items you craft now stand a 1% chance of improving the stats of mods placed into it by another 1% on top of Superior Worksmanship.

  8. Masterful worksmanship - Improves the chance of Exceptional Worksmanship occuring by another (1/2/3)%

  9. Perfectionist - Improves the bonus on stats increment for Exceptional Worksmanship by another (1/2/3)%


__________________________________________________ _______________________


MANUFACTURING - WEAPONRY
  1. Potency (1/2/3) - Increases the maximum dmg rating of the weapon. Example: Rank 1 (3 - 8), Rank 2 (3 - 9), Rank 3 (3 - 10)

  2. Consistency (1/2/3) - Increase minimum dmg rating of the weapon. Example: Rank 1 (4 - 8), Rank 2 (5 - 8), Rank 3 (6 - 8)

  3. Light Weight (1/2/3) - Reduce the Cooldown timer of your attack abilities by (1/2/3)%


  4. Lethality - When your weapon scores a critical, there is a 5% for it to apply the following effect:

    • Haemorragh (1/2/3) - Applies a DoT effect on target equivalent to (2/3/5)% of your maximum weapon damage for (5/10/15) seconds

    • Breaker (1/2/3) - Reduce target's armor rating by (2/4/6)% for (5/10/15) seconds

    • Overwhelm (1/2/3) - Reduce target's defense by (3/6/9)% for (5/10/15) seconds

    • Debilitate (1/2/3) - Reduce target's stats by (2/4/6)% by (5/10/15) seconds

    • Hinder (1/2/3) - Reduce target's movement speed by (2/4/6)% by (5/10/15) seconds

    • Blinding (1/2/3) - Reduce target's accuracy by (2/4/6)% by (5/10/15) seconds

    • Fervour (1/2/3) - Applies HoT effect to user equivalent to (2/3/5)% of your maximum weapon damage for (5/10/15) seconds

    • Voracity (1/2/3) - Applies DoT effect to target, and applies a HoT to user, equivalent to (1/2/3)% of your maximum weapon damage for (5/10/15) seconds

  5. Ferocity (1/2/3) - Improves Lethality chance of a Proc by (2/4/6)%

  6. Overclock - Grants your weapon an activated ability

    • Devastation - Temproraily increase your damage by 10% for 10 seconds

    • Destruction - Temprarily increase your critical chance by 10% for 10 seconds

    • Celerity - Reduce cool down of all attack abilities by 100% for 10 seconds

    • Vigour - 10% chance for a proc to occur w/o a critical hit and increase chance of a proc with a critical hit by another 5%

__________________________________________________ _______________________


MANUFACTURING - ARMOR
  1. Comfortable (1/2/3) - Reduce cost of your abilities by (1/2/3)%

  2. Light Weight (1/2/3) - Increase your def by (1/2/3)%

  3. Abalative Layering (1/2/3) - Increase armor rating by another (1/2/3)%
  4. Regenerative Module (1/2/3) - Increase health regeneration outside combat by (2/4/6)% of wearer's maximum health. Also reduce Cooldown of revival by medical probe by (10/20/30)%

  5. Improve Regenerative Module - Allows regenerative module to work in combat

  6. Advance Regenerative module (1/2/3) - Enhances effectiveness of Regenerative Module and Improved Regenerative Module by another (1/2/3)%

  7. Resistance Layering - Adds additional resistance to specific types of damage.


    • Kinetic Resistance Layering (1/2/3) - Wearer receives (1/2/3)% less Kinetic Damage

    • Energy Resistance Layering (1/2/3) - Wearer receives (1/2/3)% less Energy Damage

    • Elemental Resistance Layering (1/2/3) - Wearer receives (1/2/3)% less Elemental Damage

    • Internal Resistance Layering (1/2/3) - Wearer receives (1/2/3)% less Internal Damage

  8. Trauma Module (1/2/3) - Decrease critical dmg against wearer by (1/2/3)%


  9. Advance Trauma Module - When wearer is a recipient of a critial damage, there is a 5% chance of a proc occuring

    • Emergency Kolto module (1/2/3) - Heals wearer up to (3/5/8)% of their maximum health for (5/10/15) seconds

    • Emergency Adrenal module (1/2/3) - Injects an adrenal stim into the wearer and increase def up to (3/5/8)% for (5/10/15) seconds.

    • Emergency Shielding module (1/2/3) - Projects a personal force field that reduces damage taken by (3/5/8)% for (5/10/15) seconds.

  10. Enhanced Trauma Module (1/2/3) - Increase chance of proc rate for Advance Trauma Module by another (2/3/4)%
__________________________________________________ _______________________

RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT
  1. Expert Engineer (1/2/3) - Improves rate of success on RE by (1/2/3)% and learning a more advance schematic

  2. Dedication (1/2/3) - Allows the crafter to learn even higher level of schematics through RE the maxmium tier currently allowed. Example: Green -> Blue - Purple -> Purple T2 (Rank 1), Purple T3 (Rank 2), Purple T4 (Rank 3)

  3. Superior Components - Enhancements, armorings, barrels, hilts, mods, augments etc can now be critically crafted and improves stats of its original item by another 3%

  4. Replication - Allows crafter to RE dropped items/social items in order to learn a schematic. Base of 1% chance to succeed.

  5. Dyes - Allows crafters to apply colour dyes to the item that they craft. Require raw materials.

  6. Patterns - Allows crafters to apply patterns on the item that they craft. Verticle/horizontal/diagonal stripes. Various thickness & no. of stripes. Chevrons, checkered etc..

  7. Symbols - Allow crafters to apply symbols on the item they create. Skulls/Heraldic or various icons etc..

  8. Details - Allows crafters to add minute details to item they create. Targeter, Helmet Mini Camera, Antenna, Cabling, Diodes etc..
If you have any ideas you'd like to add to this please feel free and I'll be happy to include your idea here in this top post.

Special thanks to everyone participating in this thread and below is where Idea #3 came from and a few additions to Idea #2.

Quote: Originally Posted by Sharook View Post
I approve this idea.

Some ideas for amstech attachments

- grenade launcher (maybe rifle only)
ability: launches a grenade with some effect, e.g. knockdown or stun or blind
(differing launchers for each effect)

- improved energy converter (or insert any appropriate techno babble here)
passive bonus: basically a reduction of energy costs for weapon related abilities (agent/smuggler) (or a small bonus to energy)

- extended magazine / coolant system (or insert any appropriate techno babble here)
passive bonus: basically a slight (1?) increase of ammunition / heat capacity (trooper/bh)

More on page 8 in full post..
Quote: Originally Posted by Almagnus View Post
Personally, moving the armor mods OUT of cybertech and INTO synthewaving {Edit: This does not apply to the other types of mods, eg, Mod, Enhancement, Crystal only the Armor slot} and armortech would help make those two professions more worthwhile.

About the best solution is allow the critting of full mod gear, so that way crafted can be comparable to the set gear - and you can have a look that is aesthetically pleasing.

Edit:
If you also have raid-drop schematic mod gear (especially stuff that looks good and is armor) that has the possibility of becoming fashionable gear. It happened in LotRO with their cosmetic system, so if the same thing can happen here, it gives crafters strong incentive to keep with their professions.
Quote: Originally Posted by Almagnus View Post
I think the mod change is needed.

From a user point of view, wouldn't the person making the armor know best how to make the armor mods? Synthweaver gets the force user armor mods, armortech gets the non-force user armor mods. Cybertech still keeps the mod mods.

So why not give BoP gear to each of the production professions:
  • Artifice
    • Full mod lightsabers with augment slots and innate stats. Dual lightsabers have a set bonus, while mod lightsabers have a set bonus with the offhands. Double bladed lightsabers may need to be adjusted to compensate (not sure if they get offhands or not).
    • Offhand and relics with enhancement, mod and augment slots aimed at force users
  • Armstech
    • All weapons have innate states, are full mod, have augment slots
    • Offhand and relics with enhancement, mod, and augment slots aimed at non-force users
    • Like artifice, armstech stuff has set bonuses.
  • Synthweaver
    • Set of force user armor w/ all slots + augment, armor has set bonuses
  • Armortech
    • Set of non-force user armor w/ all slots + augment, armor has set bonuses
  • Cybertech
    • Reusable grenades that make a difference.
    • Ship armor that beats the artifact (grade 6) stuff.
    • Modable Earpiece with enhancement, mod, and augment slots.
  • Biotech
    • In addition to retaining what it has already, crafted implants would (like the rest of the stuff) have set bonuses, and have enhancement, mod, and augment slots.

I'm hoping that's enough good gear to make crafting a viable option to raid gear (because you still need the rest of the gear to compensate for the stuff you can't make), and still keep the mod system viable end game - something which the game SHOULD embrace.

Quote: Originally Posted by jHats View Post
I think there are better ways to go about making crafters relevant without trying to turn this into a crafter first type of game :


1. Give modifications to the classes that can use them.

Armormech : Aim / Cunning based armoring mods
Synthweaving : Strength / Willpower armoring mods
Armstech : {Changed in OP}
Artifice : {Changed in OP}
Biochem : Fine as is
Cybertech : {Changed in OP}


2. Instead of tossing credits in the trash by pulling out mods, let professions do it like deconstructors / pokers in Neocron. If I have an Armoring modification that needs to come out, an Armormech or Synthweaver (based on the armor) would have to do it.


These are just some of the ideas I had. I think armormech and synthweaving should at the very least be given the armoring mods for their perspective professions. I would like to see Cybertech get more gadgets as well. With all of the mounts in game, you could have given cybertech more options other than 3. They could make vanity pets and other things.
Idea #5 credit goes to:
Quote: Originally Posted by Destoroyah View Post
some of the things I think they need to add is Every Crew Skill sould have consumables long and short duration, maybe some instants.

Also I'd like to see items like augmentation kits that the varius crafters can make that give players a chance to improve a item to crit quality and would be good for quest rewards and drops in the game that don't have them. Another posibility is a chance quality improvement kits so you can like improve a item from blue to purple and maybe even to orange.

Abbeel's Avatar


Abbeel
01.12.2012 , 11:56 PM | #2
I'd like to see Armormech, Artificer and so on get something interesting that can contribute to in-combat play. Like the ability to overload a shield generator or supercharge a weapon for a couple seconds. Maybe fortify armor for the professions that produce that.

Almagnus's Avatar


Almagnus
01.12.2012 , 11:59 PM | #3
Personally, moving the armor mods OUT of cybertech and INTO synthewaving and armortech would help make those two professions more worthwhile.

About the best solution is allow the critting of full mod gear, so that way crafted can be comparable to the set gear - and you can have a look that is aesthetically pleasing.

Edit:
If you also have raid-drop schematic mod gear (especially stuff that looks good and is armor) that has the possibility of becoming fashionable gear. It happened in LotRO with their cosmetic system, so if the same thing can happen here, it gives crafters strong incentive to keep with their professions.

Aethyrprime's Avatar


Aethyrprime
01.13.2012 , 12:08 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Almagnus View Post
Personally, moving the armor mods OUT of cybertech and INTO synthewaving and armortech would help make those two professions more worthwhile.

About the best solution is allow the critting of full mod gear, so that way crafted can be comparable to the set gear - and you can have a look that is aesthetically pleasing.

Edit:
If you also have raid-drop schematic mod gear (especially stuff that looks good and is armor) that has the possibility of becoming fashionable gear. It happened in LotRO with their cosmetic system, so if the same thing can happen here, it gives crafters strong incentive to keep with their professions.
Edit: I misunderstood what was being suggested. I was tired when I replied it was like 3am. Having realized you meant only the armor mods I have to agree with you on that.


Spoiler


I do agree with being able to crit on mod gear but that still is available to anyone and gives the crafter no reason to keep the skill other than the possibility of making a little money on the side for people who want vanity armor. However, it does not equate out to a level playfield either in the process of leveling and especially at end game even if raid patterns existed because of how mod gear works. The crafter would need something very exclusive. While making an additional slot would be advantageous it would benefit everyone not just the crafter. This suggestion gives each of the crafters in this game something extra to click in a combat encounter.

Spoiler

After re-reading this I don't like it anymore as it would be too limiting. Rather have something for everyone in each category regardless of spec.

Raant's Avatar


Raant
01.13.2012 , 01:27 AM | #5
I think this is a great idea in terms of how easy it can be implemented and to address some balance issues for profesions. Even so i think crafting needs a loooooooooooot more of improvement to be worthy of leveling up.

I think every single crew skill should give something to the player. I hate to compare it with Wow but in WoW every profesion give u something. i think it should be like this:

Gathering Skills -----------
Scavenging: Remove a DoT effect.
Bio: Healing ability.
Arqueology: Boost on speed for a shor period of time.

Mission Skills --------------
Note:This bonuse for every 10 levels up to +5 at level 50. And considering u get a high enough skills level. For example u get the first bonus just for having the crew skill and u can access the other bonuses at 100, 200, 300 and 400.
Underworld Traiding: +1 Power.
Diplomacy: +1 Accuracy.
Investigation: +1 Critical.
Tresure Hunting: +1 Surge.

Crafting Skills -------------
Weaponteach: Add an ability to the weapon or some stats.
Armortech: Give the chance to add an augment slot to say 4 pieces of gear, not to every thing just to the crafter gear.
Synthweaving: Give the chance to add an augment slot to say 4 pieces of gear, not to every thing just to the crafter gear.
Cybertech: Resuble grandes for each 10 levels not just at 50.
Biochem: Asi it is. Reusable Stims and medpacks.
Artifice: Crafting relics with abilities.

/////////// Personal Comment ///////////

I love crafting in MMOs but so far only Biochem and Cybertech give me something to care about crafting. I have 4 crafting profesion to max level (Artifice, Synth, Cyber and Biochem) and to be honest i think Synth Armortech, Armstech and Artifice doesnt give anything to the players wich make it worth of leveling up.

For example the dissasembly system its a nice idea but so far its pretty useless for low level items. U can get an artifact version with a lot of work and investment and by the time u get it the commendation reward or the quest reward are almost as good ( yeah the crafted 1s are better but just by a little). Also in terms of time, since u dont need to farm for materials and quest instead then by the tiem u get the recipie u want its a level or two below ur level. And since there is not twinks getting the artifact versions of anything its really important because the give so little advantage over what u can easily get. As an example i crafted some armor mod Artifact grade for my Imperial Agent to place it on the new chest i just crafted for him and the level after that i ran a flash point and got a a chest with blue mods and the difference between my current chest and that one wis like -3 endurance - 1 cunning and -3 critical. So i can say for sure so far crafting its pointless in terms of gettin the upgrades in recipies.

Also i think that the crew skills lack of vanity thinghs to craft wich also could help to make the crafting system a lot more fun ven if its not from the practical point of view.

Sorry for my english but i am not used to write in english very often.

nix_crash's Avatar


nix_crash
01.13.2012 , 02:34 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Aethyrprime View Post
Firstly, I want to point out that this topic will not deal with the visual appearance of any of the items produced through these crewskills as taste is subjective. That being said, I'd like to propose one minor suggestion before the big idea.

Idea #1 - Reverse Engineering everything to a pattern.
It would be a boon to all users of these professions to be capable of Reverse Engineering all items of a matching type found in the game to a modifiable (gold) pattern. Even the white items found in shops that have no stats.

I think everyone could agree making every single awesome armor set & cool looking weapon in game available through this method would give a lot of longevity to your artists work and give players a nearly infinite number of possibilities when the final mod system is in place.
I would like to go further and just remove any un-moddable item, the mod system is great and its potentially a lot better than any other "wardrobe" system.
giving the ability to crafter to learn the recipe and sell the "look" of an item, not just his stats, could be a rich niche.

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Now for the meat and potatoes of this topic.

Idea #2 - BOP Gear attachment clickables
As it stands even if my previous Idea #1 was implemented, still none of these crewskills would have anything to compete with the biochem/cybertech end game usefulness of creations as all gear can be found better elsewhere with effort.

What I propose is that each individual crewskill be given an assortment of item enhancements they can create which can be attached to their respective type of gear which would grant a clickable function. These functions should have a gamut from lvl 10-50 on the same leveling curve as Biochem & Cybertech re-usables. Meaning every so many levels they could create a Bind on Pickup enhancement; Use it; Then select the piece of armor/weapon they wish to attach it too. Once attached the user will be able to drag n drop that item to their hotbar and click it as they would a relic for various effects.
more or less the same idea I had - my main fear with this is that it would create a pretty hefty power level runoff, everything (pve and pvp wise) would need to be rebalanced around the new power levels and the balance damage doable/ damage soackable / healing would change a lot in pvp.

not an impossible task, it just requires a lot of time to do.

and obv. it should be pretty clear that the bonuses -requires- that you still have the crafting skill or one would just learn all crafts and stack all bonuses becoming a monster.
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Moving mods out of cybertech would just ruin cybertech.
they could move implants to cybertech to balance, biochem is balanced without them.
and what's more cyber than implants?
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I do agree with being able to crit on mod gear but that still is available to anyone and gives the crafter no reason to keep the skill other than the possibility of making a little money on the side for people who want vanity armor.
there's proof that orange stuff its crittable, screens of at least two weapons with augment slot have been posted on the crafting forum.
its still unclear what are the requirements to crit.

Almagnus's Avatar


Almagnus
01.13.2012 , 03:37 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Aethyrprime View Post
Moving mods out of cybertech would just ruin cybertech. I do agree with being able to crit on mod gear but that still is available to anyone and gives the crafter no reason to keep the skill other than the possibility of making a little money on the side for people who want vanity armor. However, it does not equate out to a level playfield either in the process of leveling and especially at end game even if raid patterns existed because of how mod gear works. The crafter would need something very exclusive. While making an additional slot would be advantageous it would benefit everyone not just the crafter. This suggestion gives each of the crafters in this game something extra to click in a combat encounter.

The types of enhancements can easily be based on what kind of gear it is being attached too. Such as Damage increases coming from weapon mods and protection increases coming from armor mods, and so on.
I think the mod change is needed.

From a user point of view, wouldn't the person making the armor know best how to make the armor mods? Synthweaver gets the force user armor mods, armortech gets the non-force user armor mods. Cybertech still keeps the mod mods.

So why not give BoP gear to each of the production professions:
  • Artifice
    • Full mod lightsabers with augment slots and innate stats. Dual lightsabers have a set bonus, while mod lightsabers have a set bonus with the offhands. Double bladed lightsabers may need to be adjusted to compensate (not sure if they get offhands or not).
    • Offhand and relics with enhancement, mod and augment slots aimed at force users
  • Armstech
    • All weapons have innate states, are full mod, have augment slots
    • Offhand and relics with enhancement, mod, and augment slots aimed at non-force users
    • Like artifice, armstech stuff has set bonuses.
  • Synthweaver
    • Set of force user armor w/ all slots + augment, armor has set bonuses
  • Armortech
    • Set of non-force user armor w/ all slots + augment, armor has set bonuses
  • Cybertech
    • Reusable grenades that make a difference.
    • Ship armor that beats the artifact (grade 6) stuff.
    • Modable Earpiece with enhancement, mod, and augment slots.
  • Biotech
    • In addition to retaining what it has already, crafted implants would (like the rest of the stuff) have set bonuses, and have enhancement, mod, and augment slots.

I'm hoping that's enough good gear to make crafting a viable option to raid gear (because you still need the rest of the gear to compensate for the stuff you can't make), and still keep the mod system viable end game - something which the game SHOULD embrace.

Dextral's Avatar


Dextral
01.13.2012 , 04:22 AM | #8
First, great and good thought post.

The problem I see with idea #2 (and also the BoP idea) is that if not designed very well, single crew skills could end up as cookie cutter skills for specific advanced classes.

I think the only way to circumvent this would be to give very generic effects to the skills which would benefit everyone. Herein I see a problem with diversity, but maybe some come up with great ideas for those effects.
Also even some effects that seem generic in reality are not [HoT benefit classes whose intend is to take damage (tanks) more than those who should avoid it at all (dps, heal) and similar].

Another - not really new - idea would be to make high-end OP/PvP gear craft-only with some or all parts dropping in the OPs or as goods from commendation vendors. In a healthy populated game it shouldn't give one able to find an OP group much trouble finding someone (in this group) who then could craft his gear. This is just the abstract of an greater draft as the whole idea would blast the purpose of this post.
Just M.
-= FLATLINERS =-

jHats's Avatar


jHats
01.13.2012 , 08:43 AM | #9
What you guys are failing to realize is that this game is NOT designed nor ever was supposed to be designed to make crafting the defacto way of getting gear.

Making an item fully moddable WITH an Augment slot coupled with the new upcoming changes that let you take out every mod in a piece of gear would essentially mean that you would HAVE to use a crafted item and that looted items would always be stripped and never used.

I don't know which developer is in charge of crew skills or who approved it, but they should get 3 days off w/o pay at the very least. Why IN THE WORLD would you give armormech nothing but... armor? Why would you give "Armoring" modifications to anyone but "ARMORmech?

I think there are better ways to go about making crafters relevant without trying to turn this into a crafter first type of game :


1. Give modifications to the classes that can use them.

Armormech : Aim / Cunning based armoring mods
Synthweaving : Strength / Willpower armoring mods
Armstech : Fine as is
Artifice : Fine as is
Biochem : Fine as is


2. Instead of tossing credits in the trash by pulling out mods, let professions do it like deconstructors / pokers in Neocron. If I have an Armoring modification that needs to come out, an Armormech or Synthweaver (based on the armor) would have to do it.


3. Put a requirement on Grenades and Rakata medpacks for 400 skill of the appropriate professiona and bring the OP items like the Rakata medpac more in line with other professions. I would really love to see Grenades taken out of the game entirely or at least take the root off of them. There are MORE than enough roots in game already. There is probably more CCs in this game than 2-3 other MMOs combined lol.


4. The BOP item that most classes (thinking armormech here) get at 400 is absurd. If its a BIS item, let it be so. The Rakata items should have an augment slot. Its only good for the next tier anyways. As it is now, it will be replaced in 1-2 months which is a bit short for a BIS crafted item. This is the main reason its not worth even going Armormech. I went 400 and realized it was worthless. Same with Sythweaving.


These are just some of the ideas I had. I think armormech and synthweaving should at the very least be given the armoring mods for their perspective professions. I would like to see Cybertech get more gadgets as well. With all of the mounts in game, you could have given cybertech more options other than 3. They could make vanity pets and other things.
Dump Truck
Emperium - Prophecy of the Five

QuickSaveTV's Avatar


QuickSaveTV
01.13.2012 , 08:50 AM | #10
I like the author's idea number one, but I also think that no matter how much time you spend with going to Flash Points and PvP you work towards one specific goal - to gear up in the best possible equipment. It's not really comparable with Crafting as in current crafting system some people spend tremendous effort and credits investments in order to obtain resources, schematics, send companions on missions and cross fingers every time they Reverse Engineer something.

I firmly believe, Crafting has to be an End Game solution, so Crafters form the pride and bulk of in-game econiomy. Farming Flash Points and PvP is good and worthy, but Crafting should be an art and an elitary club for dedicated people who eventually learn how to craft unique and very powerful items.

Crafting right now needs several RE additions and possibly [Legendary] recipes, Im even willing to try if they make [Legendary] recipes chance to 1% when RE, but let's have them at very least!!!
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