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Can we stop with the one-tank ops fights?

Ascendant's Avatar

01.13.2012 , 10:43 AM | #21
We're running into the same issue. We only bet on needing two tanks, rather than four, so it's not as big a deal for us. But there is no point in having a second tank. We're probably going to have our second tank respec DPS. For the rare occasions where a second tank is useful, it can be done EASILY in DPS spec/gear without sacrificing a DPS slot for a redundant tank.

There are currently six boss encounters in the game. Two of the six, Bonethrasher and Council, don't need a tank at all. In fact, the low DPS output of tanks make them a liability in these encounters. Pylons in 8-man are also tank-optional, though not a tank-liability, meaning in half of 8-man content, tanks are not needed at all.

That's not right.
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-Makaz-'s Avatar

01.13.2012 , 10:45 AM | #22
Well some of the tanks can respec for some encounters BT, SOA, etc... but the main problem is them having to stack 2 sets of gear - which if you are unlucky with drops can be a real problem due to the lockouts.

Otherwise agree with the OP - especially since some HP flashpoint can be done easily enough with 3 DPS & 1 Healer - why would you want to use a tank then ?

On the contrary, in huttball... team of tank+healer = win

Game is broken

Semitote's Avatar

01.13.2012 , 12:39 PM | #23
Not sure why anyone would bad mouth dual spec...

You do realize "dual spec" means being able to quickly change between two talent tree specs? It has nothing to do with changing advanced class - which is the choice that you're stuck with.

You can already change your spec in-game at an NPC... All dual spec would do is make it where you don't have to go to this NPC in between boss fights. You have two configurations you can load based on which role you're needed as for each individual fight. Hotbars should save between loads too so you don't have to mess with your ability bars. It takes away annoying instances where otherwise you would have to wait like 15 minutes for someone to change specs. (Or you'd have to have backups and bench players on certain fights.)

Here's my proposal:

- Leave in the respec cost, but allow people to respec from anywhere.
- Add in talent build exports that you can import back in after resetting your talents.
- Allow players to export/import hotbars as well.

You still have the exact same cost as what's in the game now and all you take out is the annoying parts - Having to go to the NPC to respec, having to respend all your talent points, and having to reconfigure all your hotbars. So you give players more time to actually play the game. If that's not good enough, throw in a markup on respec cost if it's done away from the vendor and limit the number of talent builds / hotbar setups you can export/import.

The other alternative is to just implement multi-spec capability as a skill you learn from your class trainer where hotbars & talent builds are saved to templates and the character has X number of templates he can choose from. (Where X is the number of specs a character can swiftly switch between.)
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Xothos's Avatar

01.13.2012 , 12:45 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthBroom View Post
Yeah. They took all the ****** old features of WoW and kept them. Dual talent specs. makes fore heightened amusement. But instead BioWare basically say, we want this game to be more tedious!

$300 million and they got another Rift. Since VA won't matter at end-game, it was a nice touch while doing your class mission but in most cases a timesink that you just 'spaced' through.
First his game did not cost $300 million
Second VO is awesome IMO
Third .. i don't mind dual spec but honestly the respec costs reset weekly, not that big of a deal.
Forth . yes, please have us bring 2 tanks into a run. I am in the same situation where 1 tank is having to sit, luckily for me though, i have a ps3 right next to my PC

GlowRage's Avatar

01.13.2012 , 01:11 PM | #25
I am not entirely sure why some players are against dual-specs. It is a way to further customize your character, and allows greater freedom in your gameplay experience.

I'm going to use an example in Vanilla WoW about why not having dual spec, and tuning bosses to the requirements of flashpoints is not the best thing for end-game content.

In World of WarCraft, there was a raid called Naxxramas, with a boss known as The Four Horsemen. This was a forty player raid. The boss required eight tanks. Back then dual spec did not exist in WoW so if a tank was absent that night, or had to leave early, you were unable to do any further attempts on the boss unless you had backup tanks waiting outside the instance.

This presented several problems:
1) Guilds with only 8 tanks were unable to complete the fight if one was absent.
2) No other fight in the game required 8, in fact, most required one or two at the most.
3) Tanks past the eight needed had to sit outside the instance and be "on-call" during the raid, which is no fun.
4) Fights requiring less tanks meant that offtanks had to put on some dps pieces and do pathetically low dps as a tank spec, or spend a large amount of gold, and time, to go respec multiple times a night if they really wanted to bring competitive dps to a fight.
5) Offtanks had to carry a dps set of gear which was often whatever leftover loot was going to be disenchanted, since actual DPS specs got precedence.

Dual spec eliminates the first four of those problems, and because of the way stats work in SWTOR, the fifth one isn't nearly as bad since tank gear still has similar primary stats to dps gear. It allows you to play with the same core group of 8 or 16 without the need for extra tanks sitting in the ranks who need to be geared up for if/when they get to raid.

It does nothing but help - short a tank or healer? Have a dps respec. Short dps and too many tanks or healers? Vice versa.
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Farabee's Avatar

01.13.2012 , 01:26 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Trayne_ View Post
We do hardmode EV with 2 tanks (8 and 16 man) and meet all enrage timers. It's especially helpful on soa. Tell your ranged dps to step it up and dish out more dps.
Well the problem is we only have like 2 ranged to begin with. Melee are heavily handicapped on almost all fights...but that's another can of worms.

The dual-spec discussion is relevant, but still not the root of the problem. Every tank spec (yes even PTs) is essentially a melee when they go DPS. The problem is that melee is bad for endgame atm, so the preferred configuration for tank-ready classes tank.

I don't see why they can't just design more complex encounters that aren't single-tank spankfests where you try and eek out as much damage as possible. Bioware had some really neat ideas with this current raid tier, but the fact that everything which is "challenging" is a tight DPS race at this point smacks of overall laziness. Enrage timers should punish DPS under-performing and dying, not group composition.
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avezes's Avatar

01.13.2012 , 01:39 PM | #27
Just fyi, single healing multiple tanks is a ... challenge.
4 slot groups seemed nice at first, but not too sure abut it atm.
(back on original topic again BTW)

Rhinoplat's Avatar

01.13.2012 , 01:46 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by rigormortua View Post
Dual spec is the thing that will drive this game into the ground. you picked a path now play it. That concept is kinda like RL we cannot do everything so why should be diffrent!!
Dual spec is for peps who want their cake and eat it to..
We can already have the same thing as a duel spec; we just pay for it currently.

Asking for a duel spec is about being able to change out where we put our points into the AC trees. Duel spec is NOT about changing from say a Juggernaut to a Marauder.

Adding duel spec at this point would probably be an ok thing, as the only thing it would do is cut down on the amount of credits people spend on an already in game mechanic known as respec.