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Republic Vs. Empire


Romick's Avatar


Romick
01.14.2012 , 12:59 AM | #21
To be fair, the Empire originally attacked the Republic for no reason other than to conquer them and take over. The Republic knew perfectly well that If they didn't wipe out all the Sith that they would seek revenge in the future.

Federnder's Avatar


Federnder
01.14.2012 , 02:27 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Romick View Post
To be fair, the Empire originally attacked the Republic for no reason other than to conquer them and take over. The Republic knew perfectly well that If they didn't wipe out all the Sith that they would seek revenge in the future.
Ah, but can't you use that same justification to totally exterminate all enemies? Because if you don't, surely they'll eventually just start fighting you again?
It's an understandable justification, but rarely a very grounded or moral one.

For me, I've always viewed the Jedi Order as inherently leaning more towards what one might generally agree to be a moral good. It's never perfect, and trying to teach people to be paragons of morality from childhood has... not always resulted in the best outcomes. But on the whole, the Jedi tend to go for the whole "let's not be absolute jerks to everyone" and "I think some amount of self sacrifice might lead to a more acceptable world" sort of gooviness than the Sith.
The issues of rigidity, self righteousness, uncompromising world views, and just general stuffiness are real and worth point out too. These things also tend to lead more towards the whole "crusading, slippery slope dark side" sort of fall too.

The Sith on the other hand... well, they're basically out to manufacture a bunch of sociopathic psychopaths. While the Jedi teaching might lead to this, the Sith sort of have it as a stated goal. This doesn't mean that Sith are any more inherently "bad" than Jedi are inherently "good," and certainly "good" Sith are not a theoretical impossibility, but... well, the Sith aren't very big on being generally swell people unless they'd be too much trouble to just kill off.

When it get's right down to it, Jedi generally try not to be jerks, and Sith... don't. But the Sith don't always see being a jerk as the end goal, it just sort of tends to... happen. That's about a morally clear as we're going to get on the issue.

As for the civilizations they support, they can basically go either way. The Empire was way more ingrained and social acceptable/mandated racism and so forth, but societies are quite capable of manufacturing a whole range of people and personalities, and there will always be those who are able to be "good people" in the mist of otherwise reprehensible behavior.

And no such thing as black and white, blah blah, shades of gray, yadda yadda. The core of idea of this topic is basically the fundamental questions of right and wrong, social justice, and society that people have been arguing about forever.

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Rouge's Avatar


Rouge
01.14.2012 , 05:26 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Romick View Post
To be fair, the Empire originally attacked the Republic for no reason other than to conquer them and take over. The Republic knew perfectly well that If they didn't wipe out all the Sith that they would seek revenge in the future.
It was Naga Sadow, not "Empire" - he had to maneuver the other major lords to support him - that wanted the war (to some extent the same with SWTOR, the Emperor has once purged an entire Dark Council because it's members opposed the planned attack on the Republic) and what comes to the latter claim, that's basic raison dŽetre for genocides and as history has shown to the Republic, you can never get them all... The shadow of that genocide has darkened the Republic's future and doomed it to an eventual defeat.
Think of this: If you will play a Jedi or a Sith, now you will never get to take your apprentice to fight with you in flashpoints, warzones or raids. You will never face together any of the big end-game bosses.

DarkestDaemon's Avatar


DarkestDaemon
01.14.2012 , 01:02 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Romick View Post
To be fair, the Empire originally attacked the Republic for no reason other than to conquer them and take over. The Republic knew perfectly well that If they didn't wipe out all the Sith that they would seek revenge in the future.
That's kind of what Empire's -do-, though.

And you generally don't have to wipe out an Empire to keep it from coming back. If you beat them once you can beat them again. No reason to make them hate you.

Sanguinal's Avatar


Sanguinal
01.14.2012 , 03:00 PM | #25
If you're going to go right back to who killed who first, the Sith rulers are descended from Jedi hunted and exiled into the wilderness for splitting with the Order. That's the ultimate reason why the hatred started and why it's so strong, the whole thing is almost a civil war with the Empire and Republic caught in the middle.

DarkestDaemon's Avatar


DarkestDaemon
01.14.2012 , 03:17 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Sanguinal View Post
If you're going to go right back to who killed who first, the Sith rulers are descended from Jedi hunted and exiled into the wilderness for splitting with the Order. That's the ultimate reason why the hatred started and why it's so strong, the whole thing is almost a civil war with the Empire and Republic caught in the middle.
All comes back to the Jedi.

Auxili's Avatar


Auxili
01.16.2012 , 04:53 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkestDaemon View Post
Alright, this is slightly spoilers from the planet Voss, but it answers your question:

Spoiler


To put it simply, evil and good are based on perspective. This is true no matter what. In the Empire my character was hailed as a hero by the Imperials as well. I'm sure Jedi are hailed by the Republic as heroes.

But in that spoiler? Pretty much confirms who the real bad guys are.
So you're ignoring what the sith did to encourage the jedi to try to wipe them out?

That's like nazis saying "They came in and destroyed our city for no good reason! What arseholes We're the victims!"
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KremlinKOA's Avatar


KremlinKOA
01.16.2012 , 05:15 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by JustDocBrown View Post
So all throughout my RPG career I always, for the most part, tend to lean to the good side, or the good guys. So naturally, when i started swtor, I became a Jedi Knight. I got to level 22 and I was sad that I didn't start on a PVP server. So I decided to work on another character until they implemented a server change so i could move to PVP.

I decided to start a character on the republic side and I became a Sith Warrior. Now, my Sith Warrior is a level 12 and I have Light Side I. Even as a Sith I just CAN'T be bad. But really, my question is...

Is there any good in the Empire? Do they have good morals, do they fight for a good cause? Can someone convince me that the Empire is right? Because as I play as this Sith Warrior and am forced to fight the Republic, it hurts me. Because I like the good guys.

Thanks.
Play through a trooper on the origin world, that will kill any ideas you have about the Republic being inherently good.
21st of July 2011: the day Bioware earned my enmity
1st of March 2012: The day they atoned, and won back my good graces.

KremlinKOA's Avatar


KremlinKOA
01.16.2012 , 05:21 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by underdogwin View Post
I disagree. There are things that are just evil. Slaying children....evil. The Sith disregard all morals for a chance at power and that is in my definition evil. That is not to say that yes they can do good things however they also are not held back by any moral compass so they have the ability to do great evil.
Scenario:
These kids have newly discovered, incurable, and 50% fatal disease X.
Disease X is incredibly contagious.
If these kids get back to their families, milliuos of people will die.
It is consiodered likely that some of these kids will try and escape the confines of this facility.
Here is your rifle.
21st of July 2011: the day Bioware earned my enmity
1st of March 2012: The day they atoned, and won back my good graces.

KremlinKOA's Avatar


KremlinKOA
01.16.2012 , 05:23 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Romick View Post
To be fair, the Empire originally attacked the Republic for no reason other than to conquer them and take over. The Republic knew perfectly well that If they didn't wipe out all the Sith that they would seek revenge in the future.
Actually the empire back then believed that The Republic was planning an invasion. Naga Sadow knew better, but therest were deceived.
21st of July 2011: the day Bioware earned my enmity
1st of March 2012: The day they atoned, and won back my good graces.