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Madness vc Deception!!!

Majkeel's Avatar


Majkeel
01.11.2012 , 08:08 AM | #1
OK.... I think i've read almost every post concerning the Madness vs Deception dps matter. But on almost every post says that Deception is the spec for Single target dps and that it has the highest burst and i've tried both madness and deception and when i was deception I didnt have that crazy burst, and i NEVER crit. Maybe 1 out of 10 mauls or assasinate was a crit and i had 27% crit chance.

I recently respecced to Madness and my dps went up SKYHIGH! I crit sooo much and i mean almost more than 50% of my attacks crit and my dots doo soo much more damage.

I just don't understand how people think when they say that deception have higher damage, i mean my trash in madness did more dmg than my volcanic strike and my mauls hit harder aswell not to mention all the dot damage ticking all the time...

Can some1 explain this to me... Someone playing end game geared deception assasin or maybe just lvl50 geared assasin that can lighten me up about the damage. Cause most of the people writing on the forums are below lvl 50 and dont know anything about the lvl 50 dmg and how gear scale etc...

THANKS for help

Whatevr's Avatar


Whatevr
01.11.2012 , 08:37 AM | #2
The non crit damage will be a little higher with madness due to Unearthed Knowledge (10% melee damage boost after shock). Additionally your dots will also do more damage than the instant attacks from deception.

Overall, madness does provide more damage but deception will have some more burst abilities. They'll have higher damage shocks and burst from their surging discharge.

However, Madness provides some self healing in pvp with dot crits and, if you decide to gear yourself like I did, you can heal yourself with the 2pc set from the Force Master's pvp set when using Crushing Darkness (~5-6% total health restored per use of that ability).

Madness will have higher maul and assassinate burst than a Deception build as well but that's about it.

kidbs's Avatar


kidbs
01.11.2012 , 10:11 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Whatevr View Post
The non crit damage will be a little higher with madness due to Unearthed Knowledge (10% melee damage boost after shock). Additionally your dots will also do more damage than the instant attacks from deception.

Overall, madness does provide more damage but deception will have some more burst abilities. They'll have higher damage shocks and burst from their surging discharge.

However, Madness provides some self healing in pvp with dot crits and, if you decide to gear yourself like I did, you can heal yourself with the 2pc set from the Force Master's pvp set when using Crushing Darkness (~5-6% total health restored per use of that ability).

Madness will have higher maul and assassinate burst than a Deception build as well but that's about it.
Actually Deception will have higher Maul bursts especially during crits since that spec will get a 30% crit damage boost. Deception will have harder hitting shocks and your discharge damage will be in one large burst. I also personally find deception to be more force efficient since our shock costs are so low.

Both builds have their place and if they ever give us dual specs I will likely make my second spec a Madness one. But for right now, deception just works too well for both pvp and pve.
*** The Shadowbane Legacy ***
Darth Nether - Vulknar Highway

Whatevr's Avatar


Whatevr
01.11.2012 , 10:55 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by kidbs View Post
Actually Deception will have higher Maul bursts especially during crits since that spec will get a 30% crit damage boost. Deception will have harder hitting shocks and your discharge damage will be in one large burst. I also personally find deception to be more force efficient since our shock costs are so low.

Both builds have their place and if they ever give us dual specs I will likely make my second spec a Madness one. But for right now, deception just works too well for both pvp and pve.
0/17/24 is my current pvp build and I'm able to pick up the 30% bonus crit damage from maul. When I said that my Mauls can crit higher it was including the talent from the Deception tree as well.

Shock and Surging Discharge will definitely be more burst than Madness the only difference is that often people will run and not realize there's still a dot ticking on them hitting between 300-700 depending buffs/crit etc. Right now I'm considering changing my spec up a little bit and taking Surging Charge instead for the added burst but I highly doubt it'll be much damage. I enjoy having the 1% heal on dot crits.

My PvE spec would most likely be a mix of Madness/Deception unless mobility was needed in which case I'd switch points from Deception into Darkness.

wewter's Avatar


wewter
01.11.2012 , 03:32 PM | #5
For me it came down to play-style: did I want instant casts or do dot-based damage with a little cast-time involved. After playing around w/ crushing darkness etc. for a while, I decided that it wasn't worth the standing still and chucked both it and whirlwind (although they still have a button on the bar to be clicked if needed). Cloak + mobility + melee crit damage + force cloak mid-combat > madness -- but it's up to the player imo. Play what feels right

Warlyik's Avatar


Warlyik
01.11.2012 , 03:49 PM | #6
You never ever hard-cast Crushing Darkness as Madness.

You only use it with the proc, so it's always instant.

If you didn't realize that by now, you're hopeless.

Fashooba's Avatar


Fashooba
01.11.2012 , 03:58 PM | #7
I love these threads. C'mon closet Madness fans, come out and show your support!

... show me there's more than 1 viable assassin damage spec...

Chrishowee's Avatar


Chrishowee
02.07.2012 , 04:30 PM | #8
level 50 assassin with 56 valor, so ive done plenty of pvp with both specs, and im MADNESS>deception, but they are 2 completly different play styles, deception has enormous shock and discharge burst, but u can get everything for maul except induction with full madness spec, madness also has the pro deathfield which heals 2% of my health per target hit up to 3 so 6% and I crit for 3.5k with all my trinkets popped on 3 different people at once, also dot crits heal 2%, raze discharge and creeping do great dot an help survivability aswell as thrash and unearthed critting at 2.5k on both hits and I still hit 2500-3500 with maul and 4k if im lucky with assassinate, I feel deception lacks survivability and dps aswell after burst, I went from 200k dps in deception to 320-350k in madness, also I cast and use melee its pretty ****in awsome

Chrishowee's Avatar


Chrishowee
02.07.2012 , 05:40 PM | #9
level 50 assassin with 56 valor, so ive done plenty of pvp with both specs, and im MADNESS>deception, but they are 2 completly different play styles, deception has enormous shock and discharge burst, but u can get everything for maul except induction with full madness spec, madness also has the pro deathfield which heals 2% of my health per target hit up to 3 so 6% and I crit for 3.5k with all my trinkets popped on 3 different people at once, also dot crits heal 2%, raze discharge and creeping do great dot an help survivability aswell as thrash and unearthed critting at 2.5k on both hits and I still hit 2500-3500 with maul and 4k if im lucky with assassinate, I feel deception lacks survivability and dps aswell after burst, I went from 200k dps in deception to 320-350k in madness, also I cast and use melee its pretty ****in awsome

AbyssWyrm's Avatar


AbyssWyrm
02.26.2012 , 10:05 PM | #10
Deception is much easier to control.
In pve its vary. Against bosses madness sometimes able to do more dps then deception, but only if boss tactics require to run from boss (or get stunned, been thrown away, stuff like that). In both builds you won't be able to use abilities (or at least nor close ones), but it'll give opportunity to regen your force, its also better for madness since it can keep DOTing the boss while running. On other hand if there is need DPS boss nonstop, and basically nothing disrupting you, deception can do it better. Yes some madness abilities are cheaper, though other not (like shock, and you need to use it with madness too). Deception can buff its force regen every minute by 6 seconds. Madness can buff its force regeneration too, but in total madness still run out of force faster and often find themselves dry out of the force.
For group (non-bosses) damaging madness actually usually do even less damage then tanks. But well, ok, its truth that its not critical, after all it always about to be able kill the boss(es).

In pvp its... well, vary again. In both build its rare then you run out of the force. Its both you kill or been killed (or even both) before that happens. Madness can last a bit longer cause of self-healing, and thus have opportunity keep dpsing and kill his target before it kills you, but thats either not always a good thing. Fighting longer also means that there is a chance that another enemy will join the fight, and you actually wont be able to kill anyone at all. Basically i found that its usually harder to earn assassination medal with madness assassin, rather then with deception. And because so few internal damage and none armor penetration, madness really suck against heavy armored targets. With my deception assassin i was been able to solo kill around 70% of any heavy armored targets. With madness i usually die then they still at 20-30% health.

Lastly the armor sets.
For decetion pvp-stalker set was really awesome. Funny thing that... well, ok, its indeed helps a lot in pvp, but its actually also uber-cool in pve, much better then rakata-stalker set. Not only its helps you to damage the bosses harder, but also helps you a lot for clearing any adds and out-of-boss groups of mobs.
For madness full pvp-stalker is just meh :P extra charge and shorter cooldown hardly helpful in both pvp and pve. Although rakata stalker set works much better for madness assassins, with full chain of buffs thrash do really a lot of damage.