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Why is there a copy protection system in the graphics, and is it crippling the game?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Why is there a copy protection system in the graphics, and is it crippling the game?

shananigan's Avatar


shananigan
01.11.2012 , 02:31 PM | #611
Quote: Originally Posted by Grammarye View Post
And my point is you don't know that. I can think of lots of things it could be, as well as providing debug support in beta. Your statement is flawed. There are plenty of reasons to run things outside your main process. At least one has already been stated.

You don't know that it shouldn't be there.
Your still ignoring that running two process's that share data would consume far more information than needed, why would they do something like that?
Do or do not, there is no try.

Tiron_Raptor's Avatar


Tiron_Raptor
01.11.2012 , 02:33 PM | #612
Quote: Originally Posted by Grammarye View Post
This has nothing to do with the topic at hand. A memory leak is a bug, for starters. If the process is LAA then sure on a 64-bit OS a single LAA 32-bit process can run up to 4GB address space (or usually a bit less by the time fragmentation gets involved) before running out and thus crashing out with an invalid page fault. My point remains that if you want to map a large quantity of data on a 32-bit OS, including support for 1 or 2 GB VRAM cards, you need two processes. WOW64 doesn't handle VRAM at all, DirectX does. In order to address VRAM you must map it into address space. Whilst Windows 7 & DX11 are much better at this, the target minimum market for TOR remains XP & DX9. Your actual VRAM usage is reported separately to Private Bytes & Working Set. There is nothing that requires all of the VRAM to be mapped in one go as a single 1GB chunk.

Again, address space usage is only indirectly linked to physical RAM usage. Memory leaks are bugs, they are not indicators of correct or expected behaviour.
The VRAM still has to be crammed into the address space WOW64 has assigned to the process it's running, at the very least the parts in use do. Unless microsoft has done something very uncharacteristic, that is. The Memory leaks obviously don't exhibit normal behavior, but do illuminate a few things: Swtor is indeed LAA, and is probably using around 256MB of VRAM: the station leak in particular was so explosive, so rapid, that the VRAM state probably didn't change before the crash.

And if I understand you correctly, on a hypothetical 32 bit system with say, a 1GB vidcard and 2.75 GB of available memory (allowing some room for the other MIMO junk), that in order for swtor to be able to address 2GB of the system memory AND the full 1GB of VRAM, it needs two processes, because it's only given 2GB address space, including the VRAM?
One day my body will be able to take my brain out in public without it embarrassing us.

Grammarye's Avatar


Grammarye
01.11.2012 , 02:33 PM | #613
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSublimitas View Post
So from all of this info that I've provided, the question now begs to be asked: do ppl with 64 bit systems, RAM over 4GB up to 12 or 16 and hard drives with platter speeds of 7600 rpms or higher with over 1TB of storage still experiencing these type of freaky lag issues? If so, then there is still something else at work here that BW is NOT sharing with us.
Granted, but an entirely separate question. Could be a typo in the rendering code yielding crap FPS for all we know.
For 2000 Cartel Coins, a year-old game breaking bug may get fixed.
For $20, an epic death scene for your character is unlocked to end your overly expensive class story. Subscribers pay $10.

Ossos's Avatar


Ossos
01.11.2012 , 02:35 PM | #614
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSublimitas View Post
So from all of this info that I've provided, the question now begs to be asked: do ppl with 64 bit systems, RAM over 4GB up to 12 or 16 and hard drives with platter speeds of 7600 rpms or higher with over 1TB of storage still experiencing these type of freaky lag issues?
Yes! It also seems that the better the computer, the more likely you are to have problems. Stephen Reid already said that he'll ask about it in this post. But really, how long does it take to call XYZ and ask "Hey, what the F is this .exe all about?"

What's likely going on is BW is going into CYA mode. The Beta update in the first week of November was smooth as a baby's but. It was fast, there were NO delays, and it was the last time this game ran without laggy issues and UI delays/bugs.
Preventing Hackers and Exploiters from ruining the game is not a priority. Preventing you from mentioning the fact that they exist and go unpunished is.

Grammarye's Avatar


Grammarye
01.11.2012 , 02:36 PM | #615
Quote: Originally Posted by Tiron_Raptor View Post
And if I understand you correctly, on a hypothetical 32 bit system with say, a 1GB vidcard and 2.75 GB of available memory (allowing some room for the other MIMO junk), that in order for swtor to be able to address 2GB of the system memory AND the full 1GB of VRAM, it needs two processes, because it's only given 2GB address space, including the VRAM?
That is feasible yes. We don't actually know why the process is there; it could as easily be a workaround for a threading issue so that TOR can use multiple cores because there's an issue with a given multithreading approach that one might normally use.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: There are lots of reasons in programming why this might be done. Just because a lot of older stuff didn't used to do this doesn't mean that today people are finding ways to push the bounds because lots of recalcitrant people haven't upgraded to 64-bit (much to my irritation).
For 2000 Cartel Coins, a year-old game breaking bug may get fixed.
For $20, an epic death scene for your character is unlocked to end your overly expensive class story. Subscribers pay $10.

pewny's Avatar


pewny
01.11.2012 , 02:38 PM | #616
Quote: Originally Posted by SLOcardshark View Post
I think the game should just give us the option to choose how many Player-Controlled Characters are being displayed on our screens...for instance...

0 PC characters displayed (except for your own, of course))

Party Members Only Displayed

All PC Characters displayed.

Also. let us alter the Field-of-view parameters from "Close" to "Far".
They need to take a look at EQ2's advanced graphic options. It had a TON of settings you could adjust to tune the app to better fit your systems performance.

in SWTOR I quite often see the texture resolution swap around alot from low to high when i move my camera. This is the same thing that happened in EQ2 but i was able to adjust it higher in EQ2........SWTOR has no option for this setting.

Tiron_Raptor's Avatar


Tiron_Raptor
01.11.2012 , 02:38 PM | #617
Quote: Originally Posted by Grammarye View Post
That is feasible yes. We don't actually know why the process is there; it could as easily be a workaround for a threading issue so that TOR can use multiple cores because there's an issue with a given multithreading approach that one might normally use.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: There are lots of reasons in programming why this might be done. Just because a lot of older stuff didn't used to do this doesn't mean that today people are finding ways to push the bounds because lots of recalcitrant people haven't upgraded to 64-bit (much to my irritation).
I just wish I knew why that guy described it in a way that appeared to link it to the remoterenderingserver. That's really the only reason there's any question about it at all, at the present time.
One day my body will be able to take my brain out in public without it embarrassing us.

floweringmind's Avatar


floweringmind
01.11.2012 , 02:40 PM | #618
I have worked with the Hero Engine before. The Hero Engine allows multiple developers to work on a project from remote locations. In most cases low quality graphics are transferred to the client. You can choose to download the high quality ones, but in many cases you wouldn't need to. So the current clients we are running most likely have this leftover from something developers would used, just with most developer features removed.

Jedi_Scout's Avatar


Jedi_Scout
01.11.2012 , 02:40 PM | #619
Quote: Originally Posted by Multiple View Post
The definition and proof requirement of False Advertising is:



As such, this issue clearly falls into this category. I would not have purchased this game, spending over 120 dollars for the Collectors Edition, had it been advertised correctly as a low resolution game.
The game was misrepresented by screenshots, video play (check out any of the videos posted on youtube under the "Directors commentary") and beta experiences as a product that they had no intent to deliver upon at launch.

Simply put:



I don't really care if some of you feel that it "isn't a big deal". We were marketed and sold a product with no capability from the vendor to deliver that product. We got a beat-up pick up truck instead of the fancy sports car that we test drove. This is a MAJOR issue. Accepting problems like this only set a precedent for future games to do the same, because we're willing to accept unfinished products that do not make good on their claims. How quickly would you take a product back to the grocery store if it advertised the product as steak, but you found out it was hot dog meat? Sure, you can eat it, and might even be able to convince yourself its nearly the same thing, but dollars to donuts you'd take it back for your 10 dollars - why wouldn't you do the same for your 50 dollar investment?
Don't let this get swept under the rug.

Rather than sit here and complain about it, it's simple enough to file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission. I have already done so. It takes a few minutes to file the complaint online;

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.go...d.aspx?Lang=en

Don't take answers like this. You as a consumer are entitled to get the product you purchased.
Internet lawyers. Tell us when you find a real one to take up your case.

DarthSublimitas's Avatar


DarthSublimitas
01.11.2012 , 02:46 PM | #620
Quote: Originally Posted by Jonlinar View Post
They need to support systems other than Windows. The 32 bit world has been around a lot longer than 64 bit has and is more pervasive and "stable."
Sorry but x64 is the wave of the future - whether you like it or not. Hardware computer arch is being made just for this. MS announced, I'm a partner, that they don't plan on releasing any more x86 OS's in the future, this may change but not likely. x64 arch is better in many ways and still lacks in others. The future is coming or is it already here? Personally, I think we missed it....
"The Truth Shall Free Me"
And humour makes our lives worth living:
http://www.lo-ping.org/2012/01/20/th...ode-iii-and-v/ Why it's bad to plagiarize:http://auditorydepredation.files.wor...6231905169.jpg