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Why is there a copy protection system in the graphics, and is it crippling the game?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Why is there a copy protection system in the graphics, and is it crippling the game?

Blackfriar's Avatar


Blackfriar
01.11.2012 , 10:07 AM | #261
Quote: Originally Posted by Mandrax View Post
It's bad if the OP is in fact correct. I think the OP was right to ask the question, but I'm not sure we should be taking this as fact.

I'm not bashing the OP here, I think this is definitely something that requires more exploration or indeed a response from BioWare.

I'm not too au fait with all these things but surely if this was true, wouldn't everyone be experiencing the issues that some are talking about? Or, what could cause some people to experience the issues whilst others don't?
It's like this, it just might because of different play styles. That some people don't notice the skill lag.

For example, I push myself to my gaming limits, even in MMOs... So when you're always pushing to the limits... You can reach failure points where little things make big differences and a small failure/lag can have disasterous consequences.

Losing to a 31 boss because you're a minimum level to accept the quest and you're waiting till the right time to fire a skill, you fire it and you get a big-fat-nothing is noticeable. That happened to me last night. Being 10%, 20% underpowered means you better be good because there is no margin for failure in your stratagy and tactics.

And even then it was so close... Corso was dead. I was down to a few percentage points and I almost got him as he was down to a few points, too. But my cover failed to fire on the "F" press and I couldn't get my '100% immediate on cover quick Charged shot' in and that was that...

OTOH I have fought that boss fight with multiple other properly leveled characters. Where I didn't skip a lot of side quests... Some of which are, frankly, some of BioWare's more defective character builds/concepts...

Now, if you're running into a 31-boss fight properly leveled for the encounter (ie level 30, 31, 32...), these issues wouldn't be noticeable because of game design. SWTOR is, effectively, a co-op CRPG and the boss fights are scaled to be just hard enough to be slightly interesting, the occassional death if things go horribly wrong, but you otherwise win with 50% HP, or more, remaining after a lot of flash/bang/sparkly eye-candy.

It's all designed by the game designer to make you feel like you've accomplished something... When, in fact, you'd have to work hard to fail...
What makes the grass grow? Blood makes the grass grow!

verrater's Avatar


verrater
01.11.2012 , 10:08 AM | #262
As an Aggie, I was admittedly tempted to post some stupid comment about the University of Texas, etc etc, and the best I could do was to post this sort of apology. Gig'em Aggies.

gabrielhead's Avatar


gabrielhead
01.11.2012 , 10:08 AM | #263
Quote: Originally Posted by iphonemilk View Post
This is BORDERLINE class action lawsuit if this is true...

I've had 2 6870's Crossfire.. running perfectly.. NEVER had a problem with my cards... and when i started playing SWTOR one of my cards went bad since i started playing..

Coincidence? i just recently had to replace my card.. ;(


I keep hearing other input from the community about the game running SO HOT... if this is true, if it hasn't damaged your systems yet? it's probably doing it RIGHT now over time.. i was just an unlucky one and my cards gave up on my first before others...
I hand built my system. All cables run under the MB tray in my full tower rig. My PS is walled off to vent its own heat as well as all drives.2 High rpm server fans in the front, Huge exaust fan. My coolmaster tower has 2 120 mill fans, one pulling one pushing. My comp is a beast. and the temp it runs for SWTOR is just unacceptable for a game with mostly low res textures and blocky shadows. i have watched the temp with all settings off or set to low... with default driver settings and with the driver overriding SWTOR both high and to low. No setting changes the heat the game is causing. That is not normal. I want to know why.

Jonlinar's Avatar


Jonlinar
01.11.2012 , 10:09 AM | #264
Quote: Originally Posted by myrmexaw View Post
Ok listen the game isn't downloading any texture or streaming any animation to you because the game never takes more than 55k/sec of bandwidth during loading and rarely over 10k/sec during playing ... For consideration 7.5k/sec is the usual upload+download of a fps game such as bf3.

So no they are not copyrighting their texture and letting you download on the fly what you see ... But there is definitely something going on during loading where the bar stop at 25-30% and simply stand there while the date spike to 55k/sec for the reminder of the loading bar .

also during loading bar the 2nd process seem to process more than usual and suggest that the remote renderer is simply what we all tought ... Hero engine gimmicks multi core support by directing more data thread to another process who then use the other avalaible core.
Most likely what's happening during that first 30% is that the game is queuing up and putting any relevant scene assets in memory and then, during the last 70%, coordinating with BW servers for actor/quest data. This would explain why the HDD would show little activity because the assets are in memory and not on disk at that point.

miliways's Avatar


miliways
01.11.2012 , 10:10 AM | #265
@Tiron_Raptor I can force AA settings in the Nvidia control manager. This proves local rendering on my hardware is being done.

Also, You can monitor your bandwidth as you play the game, and if all assets including textures and animations were being streamed, you would see a constant 3Mb/s. But it is much lower than this, because it is only communicating standard game information (position, chat, actions... game state stuff, not rendering information, which is powers of 100 larger).

As someone already suggested, the remote renderer or the remote process you're so worried about is likely to do with the Hero engine's capabilities. It is a brand new engine with lots of features to assist development, like the ability for multiple artists to work on the same level concurrently, or the ability for someone to play the level and test it while someone else is modifying it.

This does not in any way imply that animations are being streamed.

PjPablo's Avatar


PjPablo
01.11.2012 , 10:10 AM | #266
Quote: Originally Posted by Karrayabe View Post
Wanting to have a dev. address constant speculation on unlikely things is like having NASA have to prove to you that the world won't end in 2012. Wouldn't you rather have them work on bugs?

The burden of proof is on the accuser and all you have right now is a series of speculative items and your own conspiracy theories.
'cuz this is just like that, right?

/sigh

Big difference there is these are customers of BW/EA and if they do not want to lose customers over something that may not even be true than it behooves them to explain. Failure to do so only allows rampant, potentially inaccurate, speculation to continue.

That said, I have no doubts they will address this with comment.

Mangosta's Avatar


Mangosta
01.11.2012 , 10:10 AM | #267
Maybe this will explain (when someone figures what is really going on) why the game looks very good on one of my computers and horrible on the other.

Have High settings on both and the game runs smooth too. This had me puzzled until I read this thread.

miliways's Avatar


miliways
01.11.2012 , 10:11 AM | #268
Quote: Originally Posted by verrater View Post
As an Aggie, I was admittedly tempted to post some stupid comment about the University of Texas, etc etc, and the best I could do was to post this sort of apology. Gig'em Aggies.
The rivalry is over! I don't know what to think anymore.

Tiron_Raptor's Avatar


Tiron_Raptor
01.11.2012 , 10:11 AM | #269
Quote: Originally Posted by Jonlinar View Post
Most likely what's happening during that first 30% is that the game is queuing up and putting any relevant scene assets in memory and then, during the last 70%, coordinating with BW servers for actor/quest data. This would explain why the HDD would show little activity because the assets are in memory and not on disk at that point.
At some point in the process it also has to start loading characters and their various assets, as well as their locations (which are continuously updated once initialized).

It's a perfectly plausible explanation for the bandwidth spike, I have to admit.
One day my body will be able to take my brain out in public without it embarrassing us.

archifikoss's Avatar


archifikoss
01.11.2012 , 10:12 AM | #270
Quote: Originally Posted by miliways View Post
What did I say that is wrong?

I have a degree in Computer Science from the University of Texas. I've studied computer graphics, software rendering and artificial intelligence. I've worked on video games, including an MMORPG (which sadly was not completed). I currently work as a software programmer.

I would be happy to answer any technical problems anybody has, but I feel like people have already turned this into a flamewar and are possibly just trolling. I have very little patience for trolls. I didn't swear and I didn't target anybody in particular, just asking that everybody please stop with this nonsense. Its fearmongering!

Sorry, I'll try to be more patient. But people need to stop jumping the gun and assuming the worst.
Since you seem knowledgeable about such things, I'd like to be educated... Would you be kind enough (assuming you have the time and patience) to lay out a synopsis of the OP in layman's terms, and sort of shoot down the argument from there? I think it would help the thread quite a bit.

Also... Could this supposed "copy protection" not actually stream hi-res textures, but run some script or other that blocks them from working for the client?

Don't flame me too hard as I'm not computer savvy I'm looking to be educated on this, and too much technical stuff will go over my head!