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Why is there a copy protection system in the graphics, and is it crippling the game?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Why is there a copy protection system in the graphics, and is it crippling the game?

Dezzi's Avatar


Dezzi
01.11.2012 , 09:31 AM | #211
In the unlikely event that this is true, I'd put my money on this being something directed by Lucas and company. Their iron grip on their intellectual property makes my own knuckles white.
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DigitalPrime's Avatar


DigitalPrime
01.11.2012 , 09:32 AM | #212
This is one post I would LOVE a memeber of the dev team come in here and explain or answer a few of the questions.

Tiron_Raptor's Avatar


Tiron_Raptor
01.11.2012 , 09:35 AM | #213
Quote: Originally Posted by KerinKor View Post
While everything you said is true, that's not what is being theorised.

Read the paper that guy dug up, it's clear that only a small part would need to be subject to this 'remoting' to achieve the 'protection' being talked about, yet big enough to cause the huge FPS and lag problems prople are seeing.
If true you'd get a hit from network latency, from rendering time, and then from the time to zip it into the rest of the (normally rendered) scene, any of which could be substantial, or perhaps only all of them together.

Quote: Originally Posted by DigitalPrime View Post
This is one post I would LOVE a memeber of the dev team come in here and explain or answer a few of the questions.
You and me both.
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myrmexaw's Avatar


myrmexaw
01.11.2012 , 09:35 AM | #214
Ok listen the game isn't downloading any texture or streaming any animation to you because the game never takes more than 55k/sec of bandwidth during loading and rarely over 10k/sec during playing ... For consideration 7.5k/sec is the usual upload+download of a fps game such as bf3.

So no they are not copyrighting their texture and letting you download on the fly what you see ... But there is definitely something going on during loading where the bar stop at 25-30% and simply stand there while the date spike to 55k/sec for the reminder of the loading bar .

also during loading bar the 2nd process seem to process more than usual and suggest that the remote renderer is simply what we all tought ... Hero engine gimmicks multi core support by directing more data thread to another process who then use the other avalaible core.

themacr's Avatar


themacr
01.11.2012 , 09:37 AM | #215
Quote: Originally Posted by miliways View Post
As a software developer I would just like to throw in my 2 cents:

The concept that all animations being rendered on your computer are being streamed from TOR servers is LUDICROUS. BEYOND IMPOSSIBLE. You guys have taken a little bit of information and just ran with it, snowballed into something completely absurd.

Textures are not being streamed. High-res textures are on your hard-drive and are constantly available; they are used during conversations. Go click on your intercom; for a second everything gets higher resolution and bump mapping turns on. There is *no* way this much data is being downloaded in the tenth of a second between my clicking the intercom button and seeing the response.

Animations are most certainly NOT being streamed. Do you know how big animation data is? You're suggesting that Bioware's servers are doing ALL the rendering for EVERY client? Are you MAD? Do you have ANY, ANY idea of the SCALE of what you are describing, WHATSOEVER?

First, this is just infeasible on the scale of the number of users. There are a million plus subs to TOR right now. Concurrent of up to 350,000+ users. THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND. Do you have any concept of how many servers it would take to render all those animations constantly over the wire???!?!?!?

NEXT, lets consider latency. If the server were rendering every animation for you, the amount of time it would take to see a response would be MUCH, MUCH longer. You guys have taken a small problem with ability queuing and animation delay and have somehow assumed that those animations are being DOWNLOADED? Uh, noooooo. No. nononono. There's no freaking way.

I don't think Google's servers could handle 350,000+ concurrent downloads of animation data in real time.

This suggestion is absolutely bonkers, and any of you who are giving it any credence need to go learn some computer science.

Animation data is exponentially larger than texture data. This just isn't possible, guys.


EDIT: Also, this does nothing to stop people from recording youtube videos, as A ) it would be about the source models and textures, not the resultant rendered image, B ) there are already videos on youtube of SWTOR...

PLEASE THINK, people! Uggh. I feel like this whole thread is trolling.
Isn't this EXCACTLY what Onlive is doing?

anywho, I agree with you that rendering ALL graphics, ALL models and ALL animations would seem very implausible because of the reasons you mention. It would not be worth doing considering the immense costs you'd have to make.

BUT, rendering only character models for instance? Or only certain key quest givers to prevent pirate server? I'm no expert but wouldn't it be possible?
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Cioffaz's Avatar


Cioffaz
01.11.2012 , 09:37 AM | #216
Quote: Originally Posted by DigitalPrime View Post
This is one post I would LOVE a memeber of the dev team come in here and explain or answer a few of the questions.
Would be awesome, and it'll contribute to relax the situation...

So, we're going to split the money 50/50, right?

Refer me pls!

Tiron_Raptor's Avatar


Tiron_Raptor
01.11.2012 , 09:38 AM | #217
Quote: Originally Posted by myrmexaw View Post
Ok listen the game isn't downloading any texture or streaming any animation to you because the game never takes more than 55k/sec of bandwidth during loading and rarely over 10k/sec during playing ... For consideration 7.5k/sec is the usual upload+download of a fps game such as bf3.

So no they are not copyrighting their texture and letting you download on the fly what you see ... But there is definitely something going on during loading where the bar stop at 25-30% and simply stand there while the date spike to 55k/sec for the reminder of the loading bar .

also during loading bar the 2nd process seem to process more than usual and suggest that the remote renderer is simply what we all tought ... Hero engine gimmicks multi core support by directing more data thread to another process who then use the other avalaible core.
The thing being discussed is used to protect MODELS. Not animations, not textures. The delays possibly introduced with regard to animations, and the quality issues with textures, are side effects ONLY at worst.
One day my body will be able to take my brain out in public without it embarrassing us.

Arkerus's Avatar


Arkerus
01.11.2012 , 09:38 AM | #218
By having to load textures from an alternate source (outside the client) would be an extreme risk and it would take a long time on many planets. The game stuttering issues are most likely not due to remote downloading.

Think about it. If that service would ever go down, the entire game would be at risk. Not to mention the slop that would come with download files every single time. The files are local but it may be doing something else with the connection.
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sdream's Avatar


sdream
01.11.2012 , 09:38 AM | #219
Quote: Originally Posted by iphonemilk View Post
This is BORDERLINE class action lawsuit if this is true...
Good thing my wife doesn't play the game, coz she would've sued BioWare already (she's a trial lawyer), because the quality of the media screenshots is much higher then the final product

The entire thread is pure speculation unless somebody does tracing and debugging to prove or to disprove that the problem exists.

However, what this thread displays clearly is the lack of any sort of meaningful communication from development and CSR teams. Mr. Reid, communicating with your paying customers in 140 characters on Twitter just doesn't cut it.

Granrick's Avatar


Granrick
01.11.2012 , 09:39 AM | #220
Onlive is basically streaming you a video of the screen. If SWTOR was doing this we'd all know. You can tell by looking at it.