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Why is there a copy protection system in the graphics, and is it crippling the game?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Why is there a copy protection system in the graphics, and is it crippling the game?

Frooby's Avatar


Frooby
01.11.2012 , 08:44 AM | #111
Quote: Originally Posted by Tiron_Raptor View Post
...You should try reading that research paper I linked. It talks about myriad ways to do just that.

And if the 'server' is the second process, the latency, other than network latency, would be relatively minimal and it could also be integrated quite tightly with the actual client's primary rendering.

Difficult, but possible. The difficult explaining the performance hit.

Honestly, I'd really prefer it if someone could provide a proper explanation as to what this 'remoterenderer' and the second client actually DO, so we don't have to sit here and speculate.
Ok, I did as you asked and read through the paper. I understood what it was saying quite well, as I work with 3D models for my living.

I couldn't find any mention of merging 2d streamed data and 3d client data together. If you could point out the relevent passages I will read them.

The system described in the paper is totally different to running one set of images from your computer and mixing in other images from the server. It is a proprietary system made to view models held remotely.

Unless you're suggesting all models and textures are bring rendered remotely and the whole thing is being streamed ala "Onlive" (which is isn't, obvioulsy).

I still maintain the the difficulty and effort to bring these images together would negate their usefullness as copy protection. Think of the programming man hours it would have taken them. There are much cheaper and easier ways to copy protect stuff.
Frooby (Smuggler)

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Maljanus's Avatar


Maljanus
01.11.2012 , 08:44 AM | #112
Well bye bye SW:TOR i had enough of this.

Tiron_Raptor's Avatar


Tiron_Raptor
01.11.2012 , 08:45 AM | #113
Quote: Originally Posted by monimoni View Post
My computer is also running scary hot. And it's a good system, it doesn't flinch playing other games or watching videos, etc. I couldn't understand why the fan just kicks in very loud every time I play swtor, but perhaps this explains it.

Sadly, if this is the case, I'm not going to ruin my computer over a game. Back to Skyrim or something until this is fixed.
I've heard some reports that high temps may be linked to forcing AA on: that because it's not properly implemented in-game, it isn't optimized correctly or something and pushes things way too hard.

Quote: Originally Posted by Nilenya View Post
Im by no means an expert at all.

But I believe EVERYONE is currently experiencing medium or low res graphics in game regardless of how high they have put their graphics.
This appears to be a deliberate design decision: reports from Public Test indicate that the current 'high' texture option has been removed, and the current 'medium' texture option renamed to 'high'.

I'm wondering, based on what I've heard about the timing, if the high res textures weren't disabled to aid the remote renderer, but that's speculation of the highest order.
One day my body will be able to take my brain out in public without it embarrassing us.

Drake_Hound's Avatar


Drake_Hound
01.11.2012 , 08:46 AM | #114
Quote: Originally Posted by Mandrax View Post
It's bad if the OP is in fact correct. I think the OP was right to ask the question, but I'm not sure we should be taking this as fact.

I'm not bashing the OP here, I think this is definitely something that requires more exploration or indeed a response from BioWare.

I'm not too au fait with all these things but surely if this was true, wouldn't everyone be experiencing the issues that some are talking about? Or, what could cause some people to experience the issues whilst others don't?
Most people donīt do tough things , where the response and seconds counts .
When you try to solo a champion or do heroic 2-4 solo . response time is what keeps you alive or dead meat .

Now most people donīt even care they lag in Operations or Flashpoints .
Or that they donīt even notice there heals or damage dissapearing .
They just donīt care let alone interrupt something , most people complain there is a lag issue when they are forced to interrupt .

Let see week 3 and a half , there should be tons of 50 around nowadays .
Guess what most of my 50 friend list are offline ... even on peak hours .
Sure we can all reroll a alt , and play trough 8 stories and then quit .
But while knowing the system , this issue hampers gameplay especially frantic gameplay at the endgame .

Let see Black Talon normal mode , almost no lag no problems , Hard mode freaking hell lag >.< interrupt has to be done with perfection or else it wonīt connect .
Hit enrage timer too often on bosses .

No wonder they donīt give combat text window , now I also know why , cause onscreen data and server data donīt match or are sync properly .

myrmexaw's Avatar


myrmexaw
01.11.2012 , 08:47 AM | #115
bandwidth doesn't matter at all as i said earlier ... the game use AT MOST 55k/sec wich is not even 1mpbs connection ... Even if you had a 1000 mpbs connection the game would not use more than 55k/sec.

the real deal is :

Loading = 55k/sec
pvping = 12.4k/sec average over 1 battleground.
upload during pvp = 3.75k/sec average as well.

aimbotcfg's Avatar


aimbotcfg
01.11.2012 , 08:47 AM | #116
If this is true, it would explain why my i7 extreme, with its 8 logical cores which, up until now, has not struggled with anything, including rendering high def video whilst playing a game on one monitor and watching a movie on my second, has the temperature shoot up to 80 degrees as soon as SWTOR is launched.

Granrick's Avatar


Granrick
01.11.2012 , 08:47 AM | #117
Quote: Originally Posted by Frooby View Post
Ok, I did as you asked and read through the paper. I understood what it was saying quite well, as I work with 3D models for my living.

I couldn't find any mention of merging 2d streamed data and 3d client data together. If you could point out the relevent passages I will read them.

The system described in the paper is totally different to running one set of images from your computer and mixing in other images from the server. It is a proprietary system made to view models held remotely.

Unless you're suggesting all models and textures are bring rendered remotely and the whole thing is being streamed ala "Onlive" (which is isn't, obvioulsy).

I still maintain the the difficulty and effort to bring these images together would negate their usefullness as copy protection. Think of the programming man hours it would have taken them. There are much cheaper and easier ways to copy protect stuff.
Yes, I'm coming to the same conclusion as you. This paper isn't mentioning anyway to run 3d models in any animated way remotely, especially only partially. It's mainly about letting a user interact with a low res model, and then give them static images when they want to see high res.

I don't see how this would apply to SWTOR

Ossos's Avatar


Ossos
01.11.2012 , 08:47 AM | #118
So in short, everyone is using Bioware's servers as a remote video card? That information/rendering is then fed back to our respective computers?

Thus the hard bottleneck when people are PvPing (tons of movement/animation/combat data).

If this is true then this game is dead. It's a $200 Million dollar game that committed suicide the momment it was released.

WOW!! If SWTOR fails because of this it will be the 2nd Starwars MMO to commit suicide.

AMAZING!
Preventing Hackers and Exploiters from ruining the game is not a priority. Preventing you from mentioning the fact that they exist and go unpunished is.

Nilenya's Avatar


Nilenya
01.11.2012 , 08:47 AM | #119
I was just seeing that comment from pcgamers interview with some dude from BW: - He says, more or less, that 95% of players have no issues with the game, and the rest are the low end pc gamers. -

I am thinking that if OP has the right of things, that this guy is going to cringe his little feet off of himself once this information goes mainstream.

Afflictionz's Avatar


Afflictionz
01.11.2012 , 08:48 AM | #120
Good find man, keep this page Alive. I'd love go see an answer about this from the devs, but you know they will just deny and ignore it lol