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Why complaining about End Game is very justifiable.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Why complaining about End Game is very justifiable.

maxbaby's Avatar


maxbaby
01.11.2012 , 05:07 AM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by Ganadorf View Post
I hate this argument

MMOs shouldn't even have more than one Raid anymore. Just make one boss, with 500 levels of difficulty; then no one will ever really clear the content
why are you still trolling here? go away already.
they make different levels to cater to different crowds.
I like this easy, some don't. rewards are different.
go play single-player or put a sandbox in your room and build castles.

Bgiffo's Avatar


Bgiffo
01.11.2012 , 05:34 AM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by Poogination View Post
It was in the thread...
The thread talking about how other threads that moan and whine are somehow just as legitimate as the actually constructive ones. My former points stand.

Fyrestar's Avatar


Fyrestar
01.11.2012 , 08:22 AM | #53
I'm really sick of listening to these players that complain about "**** I WAS MAX LEVEL IN 15 MINUTES OF BUYING THE GAME AND NOW I'M BORED!!!!!!!!!!!!!" This game, if played properly, should be a gradual progression to max level. If you skip all of the side quests and power level, you'll never be happy with TOR because you're main concern is to get to the end game as quick as possible. This game is less than a month old and everyone is ready to quit for this reason or that reason. Just because the game has gone Gold, doesn't mean that it's finished. It just means that it was good enough to release. Roll an alt and explore the planets, do the side quests, search for lore items, locate all of the Datacrons...there's always something fun to do!

RannStarcloud's Avatar


RannStarcloud
01.11.2012 , 09:17 AM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by Poogination View Post
So players are penalized for playing a certain way? More specifically, they're penalized for playing to end-game quickly because end-game wasn't designed properly?

That doesn't seem like something that someone should "reap what they sow" from...
Look at t this way:

someone cooks and prepares a nice 7 course meal for you. But instead of taking the time to enjoy each course, have a nice discourse with others at the table, you take one bite out of each course, scarf down your desert and begin screaming for more desert.

Most players are still finishing their soup and starting on the main course. You are lucky the chef was nice enough to put all 7 courses on the table before the dinner started.

maybe if you didn't power level to 50 so fast you would have something to do.

If I could have my way as a developer I would design the game so that you could not do ANY end game content without completing 95% of the leveling quests. You would have to unlock it by actually playing the game as intended.
I would put as many cut-scenes into every flashpoint and operation as i could with no way to skip them and eliminate the ability for players to zerk through content, even if they outleveled it.

I am really tired of all these players with ADD/FPS syndrome whining and crying because they chose to power their way to max level and ignore the journey. Then they turn around and complain because they have nothing to do.

So to answer your question: Yes you reap what you sow buddy. While you are waiting for the majority of the playerbase to catch up, you can go play battlefield 3 or rerolll. Maybe go read a book or go outside?

Seriously, the game is offically 22 days old. You chose to powerlevel. Nobody twisted your arm.
I can feel your Anger!

SWImara's Avatar


SWImara
01.11.2012 , 09:43 AM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by Zorakuu View Post
The type of players out there now, after having WoW - and all the other MMO's that have completely failed - are very different than when WoW was first released.

A large portion of players these days plow through the content, probably faster than expected, and if there is a lot of buggy and non-functioning content at max level, all of those players are right to be upset.
Do you have any data whatsoever to back this up? I (presumably like you) have played a ton of MMOs, and I generally assume that people who develop games know the behaviors/habits of people who play them and what they should add more of. If a large portion of players plowed through content and were only concerned about end game material, it seems likely that either A) leveling would be harder or B) developers would put all of their time and effort into new endgame stuff. In the last few years however games have changed to cater much more heavily to "casual" users, do you think that's happenstance?

Quote: Originally Posted by Zorakuu View Post
It's bioware's job to make sure that end game content is working, abundant, and finely tuned in terms of difficulty and the amount of time required to put in or there are going to be quite a few people not logging on anymore.

If bioware isn't quick to solve the end game issues, SWTOR will follow the same fate as many other promised MMO's, the most similar I can think of is Age of Conan, levels 1 - 20 were amazing and now.... well the game is free to play with an option to pay.

/end rant
AoC's biggest problem wasn't endgame, it never was, seriously. It was a poorly conceptualized combat system (would've been great if not for casters) and a deplorable system of PvP for a game that claimed to focus on it. PvE felt tacked on in AoC and was never honestly any good after level 20. Saddens me to say that as I love the setting and wanted to love the game.


Quote: Originally Posted by Ganadorf View Post
I hate this argument

MMOs shouldn't even have more than one Raid anymore. Just make one boss, with 500 levels of difficulty; then no one will ever really clear the content
I hate this argument.

Leveling is easy in SWTOR, no question, but not everyone who plays this (or any other) MMO is a raid grinder. The end gamey "more raids plz" crowd will never be satisfied with the volume of content set aside for them even when that becomes all that developers push out. The differing tiers of raid/dungeon difficulty seriously is a great middle ground in the attempt to provide content for different groups (for those jr. raiders etc who can't handle the later tier) rather than putting out 18 different level 50 dungeons and no new leveling/midgame content.

Honestly IMO the less raids the better, unless that is BW intends to make all current dungeon's/raids also scaleable for when they eventually raise level cap. The heavy focus on end game content (other than PvP) typically ends up being an utter waste when in at most a year or so, an expansion is released and no one ever does any of that old end game content anymore. It'd be nice if developers just stopped focusing on the old "layered levels of end game" content model and just tried to develop something new/different.

genghiscon's Avatar


genghiscon
01.11.2012 , 09:46 AM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by Mormack View Post
In a new MMO that you expect to grow in the coming months (which is every), you want to focus on making sure the leveling experience meets expectations. This is your most important goal pre-release. You want to make sure the systems are in place for Endgame (which they are) but you want to make sure that everyone has a smooth leveling experience (it started out a little wonky for a few people but they quickly fixed it).

This being said, its more important to have a complete leveling experience at release than a fully fleshed out endgame? Why you say. simple, that's where your majority playerbase will be even months after release in a game you are expecting to grow (once again, every MMO expects this). It is for this reason that you release the game with an almost complete/complete leveling experience (which this game did) and with the framework of endgame in (which this game did also). You will then focus your patches on squashing the inevitable bugs and patching in a more complete endgame (also Bioware is doing just this).

You do this because, like I said, this is where your playerbase is, even months after release. As long as you are gaining more than losing, you will see that most players will be below cap. You will also see that since the leveling experience is in the game already, they can focus more closely on endgame for the duration of the expansion cycle.
This is an excellent post.

Mrshush's Avatar


Mrshush
01.11.2012 , 09:46 AM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by SySnootles View Post
Ill "bite" your obvious troll post

Lets take WoW as an example, as people here tend to do.

At launch:

2 World Raid Bosses

2 Raids - Onyxia's Lair / Molten Core

Oh... and the only kind of pvp you could do was non organized world pvp.

No hardmodes, no battlegrounds, no alternate pvp games, no daily quests... nothing.

Old republic at launch:

2 Operations (raids) with 2 modes each (8 vs 16 players) - Eternity Vault / Karagga's Palace

12 world raid bosses, ranging in levels to appeal to every range of players.

3 PVP Warzones

Hardmode flashpoints

Daily quests (space, heroics, flashpoints, pvp)

I think TOR stacks up pretty nicely.
world bosses were added in i believe 2-4months after release. molten core could not be completed due to serious game breaking bugs on garr.

however. i do like your math =D

Jybwee's Avatar


Jybwee
01.11.2012 , 09:56 AM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by Jswizzle View Post
No MMO communities except Grinding in EQ???

You must of been in diapers when MMO communities first started up. I won't fault you for that.

It simply makes no sense to focus on end game content until...wait for it...the rest of the game is done. You do end game stuff last, it's the logical order of things.
that right there - words right outta my mouth. That being said - it does feel like it has slightly less end-game than other games i've played at release recently, but not by much. I have no problem with it, enjoying the story on both sides atm. Have gotten into the story alot, and with the voice acting i even feel more "connected" (? i guess is the right word) to even the side quests.

warpriestX's Avatar


warpriestX
01.11.2012 , 10:04 AM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by Zorakuu View Post
I have read plenty of threads on here, criticizing end game complaints, such as economy, crew skills, hard mode flash points and operations. I support all of these complaints.

I have also read replies to those where people have said things such as "it's a newly launched game, there is no end game" or something along those lines.

Being a newly launched game in this era doesn't matter anymore. This isn't the release of WoW, when for the most part besides grinding EQ there was no real MMO community. It was acceptable for a game like WoW to not be fully developed in end game, but it is completely unacceptable for a game like SWTOR to have no developed end game.

The type of players out there now, after having WoW - and all the other MMO's that have completely failed - are very different than when WoW was first released.

A large portion of players these days plow through the content, probably faster than expected, and if there is a lot of buggy and non-functioning content at max level, all of those players are right to be upset.

Personally I hit max level a day or two after the actual launch, and already I find myself being completely bored. PvP is satisfying for awhile but after that, it only takes about 2 - 3 hours to clear normal and hard mode operations of EV and Palace, then there is nothing left. The end game isn't difficult, hard mode flashpoints are completely useless because so much gear is dropped by bosses in operations who are easier than bosses in flash points.

It's bioware's job to make sure that end game content is working, abundant, and finely tuned in terms of difficulty and the amount of time required to put in or there are going to be quite a few people not logging on anymore.

If bioware isn't quick to solve the end game issues, SWTOR will follow the same fate as many other promised MMO's, the most similar I can think of is Age of Conan, levels 1 - 20 were amazing and now.... well the game is free to play with an option to pay.

/end rant
You are wrong so it is not justifiable.

swdrgn's Avatar


swdrgn
01.11.2012 , 10:06 AM | #60
This game was designed for you to play a different faction and class, hence the legacy system and individual class storyline.

End game is not playing one character and doing all the content you can.

Unless you played every class and faction combo to 50 you have not reached end game yet. I know it's hard for people to grasp this concept but people this is 2012 not 1999 or 2004.