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Why oh why can I hurt other players if I am not PvP flagged?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Why oh why can I hurt other players if I am not PvP flagged?
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WolfGangFox's Avatar


WolfGangFox
01.10.2012 , 04:48 PM | #21
Their are allot of games out their that do not let you heal or dps a player that is flagged for PVP unless you are flagged. to name a few WOW, Rift, SWG, CoH, and more.

Some of them started out this way and some of them changed it because it can and will lead to greefing on both sides.

For example if i want to get an advantage on another player i go around un-flagged and look for a flagged character and attack him first. This gives me the advantage because he or she cannot..... not potable..... does not have the choice.... to wait for my first attack. He or she even if they see me coming cannot attack me because i am not flagged and will probably ignore me because i am not flagged. This gives me an unfair advantage over that person. that is an exploit and should not be allowed.

Now for the other example. I am running around on a PvE server and am not flagged. A stelth toon goes to where i am attacking a group of 5 NPC's and stands their knowing that i will eventually though an AOE making me flag PVP. He or she knows what is going on and has me targeted. Because i am unaware and already in combat i will loos every time regardless of how much i try. This is two different things griefing and exploitation.

This type of system where one player can force another into doing something is wrong. This system allows and promotes griefing and exploitation.

If you are not flagged for PvP you should not be able to participate in PvP nor should you be made to PvP.

I like PvP... (see sig for any questions......) well at least i like fair PvP.

But i should not be able to force anyone nor exploit a system nor grief anyone. That is why the games that where not like this from the start changed to this now.
~Confucius said "What does not kill you makes you stronger"
BUT
~Nietzsche's Nightmare said "What does not kill you may try again"

BlackRifle's Avatar


BlackRifle
01.10.2012 , 04:51 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by _Darkstar View Post
Is there somewhere that lists which mod to contact? It's not really something that I look out for but I want to see what Bioware plan on doing with this 'feature' so would like this thread in the right place.
Just use the Flag button for this.

Dasffion's Avatar


Dasffion
01.10.2012 , 04:53 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Jalyra View Post
On Horde, we called it Bluewalling. To us, a lot of Alliance did this. Very aggravating. However, Bluewalling was when a non-PVP flagged player attacked a PVP flagged player without flagging first. It was an intentional move, not unintentional.

I am 100% with the OP. I find it highly intrusive to be on my own merry way, enjoying the game that I have every right to and accidentally hit another player who is PVP flagged. When I want to PVP, I queue up for Warzones. When I don't want to PVP I should not be forced in to it by unintentional actions, or the actions of others.
That's right.

Yeah I wasn't trying to say they were the same thing I was just trying to say that PvP on a PvE server should require flagging before attacking no matter the circumstances.

_Darkstar's Avatar


_Darkstar
01.10.2012 , 05:00 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by BlackRifle View Post
Just use the Flag button for this.
Done. Thank you
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!

MorgonKara's Avatar


MorgonKara
01.10.2012 , 05:03 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by gorgewall View Post
name an mmo where catching an enemy player in an aoe, even if you were targeting an enemy with it first, does not throw you into pvp mode. Go ahead.

That's just how it works. If they're flagged, anyone and anything can and will do damage to them. If you do damage to someone, you become flagged.
SWG -If you were not-flagged and you tried to do anything to a flagged player (heal, buff, AOE) it simply had no effect. This had three basic functions;
One, you wouldn't accidentally flag for PvP if you were a PvE player.
Two, you couldn't have a non-flagged player heal and buff you in PvP.
Three, you couldn't surprise attack someone by being un-flagged and suddenly attacking them.

The only way to get flagged for PvP was to flag yourself or enter a clearly marked PvP zone. 100% voluntary. Your nameplate blinked for a few seconds before you made the transition so other players could see that you were flagging.
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MorgonKara's Avatar


MorgonKara
01.10.2012 , 05:37 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Jalyra View Post
On Horde, we called it Bluewalling. To us, a lot of Alliance did this. Very aggravating. However, Bluewalling was when a non-PVP flagged player attacked a PVP flagged player without flagging first. It was an intentional move, not unintentional.

I am 100% with the OP. I find it highly intrusive to be on my own merry way, enjoying the game that I have every right to and accidentally hit another player who is PVP flagged. When I want to PVP, I queue up for Warzones. When I don't want to PVP I should not be forced in to it by unintentional actions, or the actions of others.
Yeah I got ganked on Nar Shaddaa once because I didn't realize that's how it worked in this game. For starters I was flagged PvP without even realizing it (I must have buffed a flagged player or something). I'm minding my own business doing some PvE when these two Republic players roll up, un-flagged, and one challenges me to duel. Halfway through the duel (which I was winning BTW ) the second guy jumps in from behind and starts wailing on me with his most powerful attacks and CC. Before I realized what was happening I was dead.

Now if all three of us had been intentionally flagged for PvP and that happened, c'est la vie -that's PvP. But the fact that these guys were rolling covert and were able to double team me out of the blue like that is garbage, IMHO.
Armormech-Armstech-Chemist-Mor-gon-M'orgon-Maxxi
Armormech-Armstech-Biochem-Artifice-Synthweaving-Cybertech
The Craft Legacy ~The Ebon Hawk

Darth_Gao_Gao's Avatar


Darth_Gao_Gao
01.10.2012 , 06:15 PM | #27
this shouldn't happen. also, it's pretty pathetic to roll on a PVE server, only to flag yourself and grief people in this manner. while it would be admittedly hilarious for the first few times, given the fact that world pvp is meaningless, it would get boring quick. then you are stuck with a character on a server in which you have to flag yourself to fight. bunch of nerfherders.

tldr: play on a pvp server.

Bibdy's Avatar


Bibdy
01.10.2012 , 06:42 PM | #28
This is one of those "damned if you do, damned if you don't" design decisions. They could do it one of two ways, but whichever one they pick, its going to irritate some people.

There's always the situation where someone stumbles on a group of players fighting, and wants to help out. The auto-PvP flag system is there to allow you to jump in, without having to dick around with enabling your flag first. The alternative is not to auto-flag you, and you're unable to heal/attack anyone until you explicitly enable it.

However, many people roll on PvE servers with the express intent of not getting involved in open world conflict with other players. So, I think having to explicitly enable the flag to jump into combat is much less irritating to the broader playerbase than PvE players getting flagged for combat unintentionally.

Ringzero's Avatar


Ringzero
01.10.2012 , 07:03 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by MorgonKara View Post
Yeah I got ganked on Nar Shaddaa once because I didn't realize that's how it worked in this game. For starters I was flagged PvP without even realizing it (I must have buffed a flagged player or something). I'm minding my own business doing some PvE when these two Republic players roll up, un-flagged, and one challenges me to duel. Halfway through the duel (which I was winning BTW ) the second guy jumps in from behind and starts wailing on me with his most powerful attacks and CC. Before I realized what was happening I was dead.

Now if all three of us had been intentionally flagged for PvP and that happened, c'est la vie -that's PvP. But the fact that these guys were rolling covert and were able to double team me out of the blue like that is garbage, IMHO.
This happened in WoW all the time. You probably weren't flagged before. Some guy challenges you to a duel, then lets you wail on him boosting your confidence. Then he flags PVP in the middle of the duel. You hit him, BAM, now you're flagged, and his friend joins in the spanking.

Don't duel cross-faction, especially if the other guy has a friend or two with him.

MorgonKara's Avatar


MorgonKara
01.10.2012 , 10:17 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Ringzero View Post
This happened in WoW all the time. You probably weren't flagged before. Some guy challenges you to a duel, then lets you wail on him boosting your confidence. Then he flags PVP in the middle of the duel. You hit him, BAM, now you're flagged, and his friend joins in the spanking.

Don't duel cross-faction, especially if the other guy has a friend or two with him.
Yeah I know that now. I never played WoW. I like Star Wars and I used to play SWG but I was never into Warcraft. People bash SWG but it had some great open world PvP and the ruleset for all the servers was basically PvE with voluntary flagging. I like PvP but I like to be ready for it. I'm not into random open world ganking, I like coordinated battles. That's why I rolled on a PvE server.

This is especially bad for players that have no interest in PvP and trust me there are a lot of them. I mean, if you're ganking people playing on a PvE server, because they clearly have no interest in PvPing, that is lame x1000. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. If someone wants open world PvP ganking they should go roll on a PvP server or play overt all the time. But they don't, they are too scared to roll around overt and only flag if they can use it to gank someone and then they run back to their base and un-flag again. Weak. That's not PvP competition.

Forcing people that are playing on a PvE server to flag for PvP in order to gank them isn't PvP as far as I'm concerned, it's griefing. Bioware needs to fix it.
Armormech-Armstech-Chemist-Mor-gon-M'orgon-Maxxi
Armormech-Armstech-Biochem-Artifice-Synthweaving-Cybertech
The Craft Legacy ~The Ebon Hawk