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Do you support an in game version of Recount. Please give reasons for your answer.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Do you support an in game version of Recount. Please give reasons for your answer.

Israel's Avatar


Israel
12.13.2011 , 11:53 AM | #1
Quote:
Just to be clear, this thread is advocating an in-game Bioware built tool and not a third-party addon.


Recount is not just a "damage meter"... it is a graphical interface which allows you to view group activity in the combat log i.e. Damage Done over the duration of the fight by each player, Friendly Fire, Damage Taken, Healing Done, Absorbs, Healing Taken, Overhealing Done, Deaths, DOT Uptime, HOT Uptime, Player Combat Activity, Dispels, The Dispelled, Interrupts, Ressers, CC Breakers, Resources Gained, etc.

I believe these tools play an important role in identifying whether a player is doing well or under-performing. Nevertheless, these graphs should be the starting point – an indicator that you should be looking more closely at the situation. Used wisely, a tool like this could greatly improve guild performance.

Some individuals are fearful of an "elitist" backlash caused by the improper use of such a tool. Nevertheless, people have also argued that this tool would actually curb elitist behavior based on FACTS and DATA rather than Gear, Achievements, Spec, Gut Feeling or Favoritism.

The inevitability of undesirable behavior isn't something we can escape in a massive online community, so the real question is...

Would you rather be castigated based on factual data or would you rather take your chances with the "hunch" of a self seeking jerk?

With Recount

Jerk: Dude please leave the group your DPS sucks.


Without Recount

Jerk: Dude please leave the group you are wearing a green helm and your gear isn't good enough for this encounter. (You get kicked, even if you were top DPS)
-
EDIT: It would also totally eliminate "recount spam". They could disable all data broadcasts... If everyone has access to the information there would be no need to broadcast the results.

EDIT UPDATE: Fansite Summit: CRR Interview with Georg Zoeller
-
During the speed-fire round starting at 13:00 in the video. Georg confirms an out of game COMBAT LOG!

People will have access to combat logs please bring a recount version in the game!


I think Georg Zoeller understands our pain for not having a combat log at launch, let's hope they "get it right" and quickly. Georg's response to "No Combat Log at Launch"

People who don't like Recount.
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LexiCazam's Avatar


LexiCazam
01.10.2012 , 12:47 PM | #2
Because the previous thread has exceeded our normal threshold for thread length, we've started this new thread for the community to discuss this topic.

As always, we ask that the community keep the following things in mind when responding:
  1. No insults, name calling, or personal attacks
  2. Please stay on topic.
  3. Please express your opinion and thoughts in a constructive, respectful manner.
  4. If someone violates the Rules of Conduct, please flag it instead of replying to it.
  5. Keep in mind that everyone has different viewpoints. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're trolling. If you believe someone is trolling, please use the Flag function to report their post.

Thank you!

Irishbrewed's Avatar


Irishbrewed
01.10.2012 , 12:52 PM | #3
If they plan to mimic warcrafts boss encounter designs with enraged timers the they do need something. But not recount plz.

Taroen's Avatar


Taroen
01.10.2012 , 12:52 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Gummiebear
you forget what community is about my friend.... like family... you healp and teach.... not insult or kicking a child the first time they dont get a golf ball into the hole....

gearscore ruined wow....

dps meters ruin communities....

Bioware is smart to take this issue slow and consider it carefully
You can't help or teach someone if you don't even know which person in your group needs the help. And even if you did know, there would be no way to help them without an idea of where they're going wrong.

Meters don't create e-peen idiots... They EXPOSE them.

Personally, I like it when those guys are higher profile. They're easier to identify and avoid.

Febibi's Avatar


Febibi
01.10.2012 , 12:53 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Israel View Post

Recount is not just a "damage meter"... it is a graphical interface which allows you to view group activity in the combat log i.e. Damage Done over the duration of the fight by each player, Friendly Fire, Damage Taken, Healing Done, Absorbs, Healing Taken, Overhealing Done, Deaths, DOT Uptime, HOT Uptime, Player Combat Activity, Dispels, The Dispelled, Interrupts, Ressers, CC Breakers, Resources Gained, etc.

I believe these tools play an important role in identifying whether a player is doing well or under-performing. Nevertheless, these graphs should be the starting point an indicator that you should be looking more closely at the situation. Used wisely, a tool like this could greatly improve guild performance.

Some individuals are fearful of an "elitist" backlash caused by the improper use of such a tool. Nevertheless, people have also argued that this tool would actually curb elitist behavior based on FACTS and DATA rather than Gear, Achievements, Spec, Gut Feeling or Favoritism.

The inevitability of undesirable behavior isn't something we can escape in a massive online community, so the real question is...

Would you rather be castigated based on factual data or would you rather take your chances with the "hunch" of a self seeking jerk?

With Recount

Jerk: Dude please leave the group your DPS sucks.


Without Recount

Jerk: Dude please leave the group you are wearing a green helm and your gear isn't good enough for this encounter. (You get kicked, even if you were top DPS)
-
EDIT: It would also totally eliminate "recount spam". They could disable all data broadcasts... If everyone has access to the information there would be no need to broadcast the results.

EDIT UPDATE: Fansite Summit: CRR Interview with Georg Zoeller
-
During the speed-fire round starting at 13:00 in the video. Georg confirms an out of game COMBAT LOG!

People will have access to combat logs please bring a recount version in the game!


I think Georg Zoeller understands our pain for not having a combat log at launch, let's hope they "get it right" and quickly. Georg's response to "No Combat Log at Launch"

People who don't like Recount.
Reccount is a nice tool but abused constantly....

We should ask for individual meters and group leader only meters....

This can help avoid the abuse of meters...and at the same time give you the information you want.
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Pyretechnic's Avatar


Pyretechnic
01.10.2012 , 12:53 PM | #6
Meters don't make insulting comments, jerks do.

Meters help me step up my game.
Meters help us measure our groups chances against enrage timers.
Meters help us see who's forgetting to interrupt / dispell.
Meters help us recruit for our guild, who "gets it" and who doesn't.
Meters are a tool, they give a metric. They are not gearscore.

I want a log and meter please.

Yfelsung's Avatar


Yfelsung
01.10.2012 , 12:53 PM | #7
As I was already involved in the last thread for far too long today, I'm going to just make a final comment.

DPS meters don't teach you how to play, they only allow you to analyze how you play better than you can without them

No one should ever argue to keep being ignorant about something.

More information is never bad.

I am fully against mods that play a game for you, but I am all for mods that give me all the information I require to ensure my play is of the highest level and that my guild's play is of the highest level.

AND

AND

If some guy spams a DPS meter in a group and mocks you for having low DPS, consider this:

What does his opinion matter?

Why are you upset by it?

Why do you care at all what someone on the internet said about you?

With only a few pounds of pressure, you could silence that person's opinion permanently.

So any one opinion is only worth a few pounds of pressure.
MHORDSUNG SOULGRINDER, LEGATUS OF PHOBOS LEGION

At the end of days the dragon stands tall and with limitless rage it illuminates all.

AlpsStranger's Avatar


AlpsStranger
01.10.2012 , 12:53 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Irishbrewed View Post
If they plan to mimic warcrafts boss encounter designs with enraged timers the they do need something. But not recount plz.
Ok, we'll call it "CountRe." It'll do the exact same thing, but we can still pretend the game isn't a WoW clone.

guided_by_voices's Avatar


guided_by_voices
01.10.2012 , 12:53 PM | #9
Quote:
Very Zen. What you need to understand is not every group of players want to teach. They don't want to babysit, they want to clear content. They want a metric to asses their own performance and they want a metric to make sure everyone in their group reaches the minimum requirements to down the content. If you as a player aren't making the grade, its you as a player who needs to learn why and fix it. They don't and shouldn't need to babysit you.

If you want a caring leveling guild that up to you. But you have no argument or reason to prevent those who want performance to reach their performance goals.
and how do you measure apples to oranges?

player a does 1k dps tops meters does nothing else
player b does 750 dps but took the least amount of damge saving healers a headache
player c does 500 dps but interupted, or cc'd the entire fight?

who needs to be kicked?

AlpsStranger's Avatar


AlpsStranger
01.10.2012 , 12:54 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by guided_by_voices View Post
and how do you measure apples to oranges?

player a does 1k dps tops meters does nothing else
player b does 750 dps but took the least amount of damge saving healers a headache
player c does 500 dps but interupted, or cc'd the entire fight?

who needs to be kicked?
Good parsing/metering can actually account for things like damage taken, ccs and interrupts.