Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Why run 16man when 8man is so much easier?


ValaxDarkseer's Avatar


ValaxDarkseer
01.09.2012 , 03:06 PM | #1
My guild has ran both 16m and 8m normal raids in EV and Karaggas so far and the difference between the two is ridiculous.

Why is the trash in 8man EV so undertuned compared to 16m? Its faceroll easy on 8man even on Hard Mode for crying out loud! But bring in 8 more people and the trash has about 4 times the HP and does 3x the damage wth? At least scale things correctly or buff the 8man trash because that stuff is disgustingly easy in 8man.

Every Boss becomes far more of a PITA with 16m as well. Take the Anhilliation Droid for instance. On 8man during Storm Protocol its extremely rare to have someone even get hit by one of those bombs but with 16 people theres way less room to work with because you have that extra 8 taking up the same space. There is zero benefit bringing in an extra 8 people for this fight.

Gharj is the same deal. Instead of 8 people crowding those platforms we now have 16. Again why bring 16 when i can bring 8 and get the same rewards?

The Pillars on 16man is probably the most outrageous change from 8m to 16m by far however. On 8man in both normal and hard modes the pillars cant even be called faceroll as its a level below even faceroll difficulty. But add 8 more people and it jumps from super easy to getting flooded by elite mobs which spam reflect shield constantly and can easily overwhelm a raid force. While its still very beatable (and better IMO) the difference between 8man and 16man on Pillars makes no sense. either buff the way to easy 8man pillars or retune the 16man because the difference between the two is staggering.

Soa on 8man= Tuned just about right.
Soa on 16man= I hope you didnt bring any melee and that everyone can dodge 8 lightning balls!


Considering theres way more things which can go wrong with 16man than 8man why are 8man so much easier while 16man exponentially harder? Shouldnt this be reversed or at least scaled right so its about even at least? Why should any guild go 16man when they can go 8man and have it far easier.

I always thought that 8man raids were supposed to = finely tuned and more difficult overall because its easier to find 8 strong players to progress with and its easier to coordinate those 8 people and theres less that can go wrong. On the flipside I always thought 16man was supposed to= not as finely tuned to allow more room for error and not quite as strict a raid makeup to allow flexibility due to it being a bigger PITA to coordinate and find 16 strong players.


So I ask you Bioware.......why should I bother with 16man raids when 8man is so much easier, forgiving, and way less stressful on guild leadership?

Penguinman's Avatar


Penguinman
01.09.2012 , 03:16 PM | #2
I find it hard to justify doing 16 mans right now when it comes to getting gear. There's no real incentive to taking on the obviously much harder challenge of 16 man. I don't know if it's just an undertuning of 8, or overtuning of 16, but it just doesn't seem worth it to do 16.

The only reason to do 16 man ops is for the "prestige". Although quite honestly, very very very few people are going to remember who downed what and when in a few months anyways. Some guilds want that prestige, even if it's rather short lived.
Trist Beoulve the Unyielding.

Sedition

Jurugar's Avatar


Jurugar
01.09.2012 , 03:17 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by ValaxDarkseer View Post
Why should any guild go 16man when they can go 8man and have it far easier?
Not every guild wants to take the easy route just for gear; some enjoy the challenge of tough content, even if it isn't tuned as well as 8 man.

CHRISGG's Avatar


CHRISGG
01.09.2012 , 03:18 PM | #4
The difference in difficulty is honestly due to poor tuning and bugs more than it is the encounters actually being intentionally harder. I mean they seriously went and made a lot of stuff in 16 man just plain do double damage, as if with 16 players people have double the health or something IE: The droids famous random *** 1 shot rockets.
AKA Faction
50 Sage, Wound in the Force
Check out my YouTube channel, tons of SW:TOR videos!

ValaxDarkseer's Avatar


ValaxDarkseer
01.09.2012 , 03:20 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Jurugar View Post
Not every guild wants to take the easy route just for gear; some enjoy the challenge of tough content, even if it isn't tuned as well as 8 man.
Fair enough, but why should the 8mans even be the "easy" route. It should at the very least be just as hard as 16man and IMO MORE difficult since its way easier to put together a crack team of 8 raiders.

BishopTx's Avatar


BishopTx
01.09.2012 , 07:02 PM | #6
I thought it was posted that the item level drops, especially of SOA (or any last boss) were higher (136+, Rakata level) in 16 mans and in 8-mans they were lower (126 etc).
Therefore giving an incentive for running the 16 mans.

Fuiri's Avatar


Fuiri
01.09.2012 , 07:32 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by BishopTx View Post
I thought it was posted that the item level drops, especially of SOA (or any last boss) were higher (136+, Rakata level) in 16 mans and in 8-mans they were lower (126 etc).
Therefore giving an incentive for running the 16 mans.

No, 8man normal & 16man normal both drop the same Columi gear. While 8man hard & 16man hard both drop Rakata gear pieces. The only other thing you get more of are materials, patterns, and the random gear items.

Kiwimeister's Avatar


Kiwimeister
01.09.2012 , 07:48 PM | #8
i'd do it for the challenge.....later on in the future....they'll be asking...."Where were u when they were mastering the super hard modes?"...weakling!!
Everything Eventually comes to an end....Not even the Dragon Balls can last forever!

Helagoth's Avatar


Helagoth
01.09.2012 , 09:52 PM | #9
We tried Eternity Vault tonight for the first time with the first 8 or so people to hit lvl 50. Our comp was Me (jugg tank), Marauder, 3 healers, 3 ranged dps. In ~2 hours:

We wiped the most on the first trash pull until we read that you can cc a turret.

We wiped second most on people instantly dying after zoning in after a wipe.

We wiped once on pylons because someone clicked it when we hadn't cleared trash to the other, and didn't know what to do because we did no research before charging in. We kept waiting for a boss or something

We wiped twice on Gharj, once the first time because we hit the enrage with 4% left, once because I tanked him in a funny spot and we confused people by saying "healers do some dps" without specifying which healers, so they all pew pew'd and no one healed.

We one shot the first boss and the fourth.


This is all with people who I'd consider "average", in slightly better than the gear you get from leveling. Is it really intended to be this easy on normal? If so, change the name of it from normal to easy please.

Also, the loot system is crap. Giving loot to people rather than having stuff drop then being able to /roll or assign it is stupid. What's worse than not having the thing you want drop? Having it drop but having it go to someone's offspec because "that loot is destined for Helagoth" (I won a dps belt that could have gone to the marauder.)

On Friday, we're hoping enough people are lvl 50 to run 16man. We'll see what happens.
Integrity MMO Community
Casual, no pressure, Quality Raiding - Juyo Server
PvE - EST - Mature Players Only

ValaxDarkseer's Avatar


ValaxDarkseer
01.11.2012 , 01:36 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by BishopTx View Post
I thought it was posted that the item level drops, especially of SOA (or any last boss) were higher (136+, Rakata level) in 16 mans and in 8-mans they were lower (126 etc).
Therefore giving an incentive for running the 16 mans.
If true than that would be awesome/

But I really dont think this is true.