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Melee DPS and Soa fight


Qcto's Avatar


Qcto
01.09.2012 , 05:45 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by conezero View Post
Melee DPS is definitely at a disadvantage to Ranged DPS in a lot of the end game fights. However, if you use your gap closers properly or your raid is set up properly Melee DPS works fine.

That said, I feel Melee DPS is more challenging and more rewarding which is why I play it.

(Lvl 50 Jedi Shadow)
If by your raid set up is proper you mean dont bring melee that doesnt have a gap closer (aka operatives/smuggler), then the encounters are designed poorly. There should always be things ranged and melee have to do other than sit there and dps (patchwerk fights are not fun).
The Hitchens Legacy | 50 Operative | 40 Mercenary | Daragon Trail

Cepheid's Avatar


Cepheid
01.09.2012 , 05:48 PM | #12
Currently Scoundrel is the most gimped class. Every other melee is fine and has a place in the fight.
"I am somehow less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops." - Stephen Jay Gould

BeBenNova's Avatar


BeBenNova
01.09.2012 , 06:54 PM | #13
Yea SOA sucks for melee, on hard mode he can't even be charged on the 2nd platform (phase 3)

Who knows if it's a bug or intentional but either way it really sucks, if you bring too many melee you lose

Reminds me of the bloodlust spread in WoW where every raid required a shaman in each group

kainsec's Avatar


kainsec
01.09.2012 , 07:19 PM | #14
Yes this game is built more around the range classes. Sins having if specced (found only in our tank tree) a 20 sec cd gap closer makes charging around after mindtraps and during the final stage charging back to Soa afterwards when the shield break a very large headache. Most bosses in this game are like that in one way or the other. In most games that is to keep MDPS from owning them on a stick but in this game where RDPS damage is very similar to MDPS damage that is a flawed mechanic

I respectfully request the next operation added the final boss fight have an anti-range mechanic that favor melee so they can know what it feels like for a change.
level 50 Sith Assassin
level 50 Mara
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Surter's Avatar


Surter
01.09.2012 , 09:30 PM | #15
This is, really, a very serious oversight.

Force Leap and similar abilities, in pve, serve a very specific purpose: to minimize downtime for melee on running/target swapping fights. If leap isn't an option, the boss Making a boss immune to being charged is a *major* problem, and on a fight like Hard Mode Soa, makes the penalty simply for being melee absurd.

In normal mode, this is a minor issue; I can afford to run while we wait for him to go vulnerable, and get pretty high dps uptime, since the fight isn't really that bad. But, in hard modes, as a sentinel, I'm likely looking at simply sitting out Soa - that's how serious the issue is. My gear is good, my damage output is (normally) fine, but the boss is unchargeable, and with lightning running around, my DPS uptime on the boss is, if I'm lucky, half that of a ranged class - maybe less, in phase 3.

Bioware: first and foremost, fix this. Let me charge Soa, or you're going to have a lot of VERY unhappy melee. Second (And perhaps more important in the long run), STOP DESIGNING MECHANICS THAT PENALIZE MELEE ONE EVERY FIGHT.

All of the single-enemy boss fights in the instance have a mechanic that basically makes melee worse in every way. On the droid, there's an AoE stun; on Gharj, there's both Pounce *and* frenzy.

Stop it. There are plenty of ideas for bosses that don't involve "Hey, let's knock the melee back again, they love that!"

This game needs to change with regards to how bosses treat melee, or I'll just be another one of the fallen sentinel, forced to reroll gunslinger/sage to go to raids.

Gyakujou's Avatar


Gyakujou
01.10.2012 , 12:29 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by conezero View Post
Melee DPS is definitely at a disadvantage to Ranged DPS in a lot of the end game fights. However, if you use your gap closers properly or your raid is set up properly Melee DPS works fine.

That said, I feel Melee DPS is more challenging and more rewarding which is why I play it.

(Lvl 50 Jedi Shadow)

Yeah...you clearly have not done the Soa fight yet.

He cannot be charged at during the burn phase (part 3) which means the melee dps can do 1 of 2 things:

1) foot it from the mind traps to the boss. usually this is on the other side of the room which means by the time you get there, you can only get 2, maybe 3 hits in before he's back to immune.

2) stand around near the boss and wait for him the crystal to drop of him so you can dps him. Problem with this is you'll soon have a quarter of your raid if not half of your raid in mind traps if the melee dps are just standing around doing absolutely nothing.

So clearly, this is fight, and many others is just not working out for melee.

sCaryDeth's Avatar


sCaryDeth
01.10.2012 , 01:12 PM | #17
Soa definitely sucks for Melee and I thought it was as bad as it gets... Until HM 16 Karraga. Ugh.

For Soa I handled 3rd phase by getting on mindtrap and counting on the tank to call out about 5 secs or so early when shield is going down then I would head that way and let the range that can swivel from one to the other without issue finish off the mindtraps. Worked pretty well for me.

As far as the balls in melee range.... Well... Due to the TIGHT enrage timer we usually just ate them and counted on our amazing healers to keep us up. I have 3 cooldowns that I used as needed to keep me up throughout the shield down burn phases.

BTW It's good to see others with the "No Force Leap" issue too. I thought I was going insane for a while with that one. The bad thing about pushing for world firsts is that sometimes you just don't know if it's a bug or a mechanic that just hasn't been figured out yet hehehehe

Overall I really love my class but yea.... definitely been times I wished I were ranged!

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midnightcitysky's Avatar


midnightcitysky
01.15.2012 , 01:27 PM | #18
As a raid leader I now have to tell 2 other officers (one being my GM) that the fact they are melee is the reason we can't down Soa. I gots 2 guardian DPS a gunslinger, a vanguard and a DPS sage. and that really is the reason, we have the mechanics down but if 2 mind traps pop accross the room in the 3rd phase, we are so massively screwed.
this REALLY bothers me as I am a strong proponent of bring the player not the class. I really don't get what MMOs as a genre have against melee? aside from vindictus and dragon nest they've all been so massively melee unfriendly that I feel like an idiot for rolling melee, and like I am wrong for liking melee. guess I am

Munx's Avatar


Munx
01.15.2012 , 03:32 PM | #19
We are currently using 4 melees in our 8 man group and it punishes us severly, specificly on SoA and Karaggas.

While we didnt have much problems one shooting the other bosses in nightmare, these two seems to painful for melee's even on Hm, we managed to down Karaggas after many tries, but we are still not getting past SoA on Hm witho ur 4 melee's. Partly because some bugs keeps screwing us.

I have no doubt its doable with melee's but as it is both these fights just straight out punish melee's, if you are gonna add such nasty minuses for melee's in a fight you also need to added bonuses.

for example: damage done within melee range of SoA/Karagga being higher.

Atleast fix the Rancors Sweep radius on hm/Nm, atm its WAY to wide, melee's are getting ***** slapped when they are directly behind him.

And for gods sake let us charge SoA, its a absolute must.
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Amikae's Avatar


Amikae
01.15.2012 , 05:59 PM | #20
The "no charging" bit I think is bugged. I bet we're supposed to charge him. I hope they don't overlook this, because we are also running a heavy mele setup and it's really hard.

Slightly to the side of the topic. Any tips on proper positioning the boss in the final phase, for the shield breaks. We started ops for the first time tonight(I am tanking) and I got a few tries, but I've not managed to get the hang of it yet. And it really annoys me when such a thing would cause wipes. I don't know if I need a few more tries to get used to their movement and my camera position.