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[Official High Resolution Textures Post] Can we get a clarification on this?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
[Official High Resolution Textures Post] Can we get a clarification on this?

Kraylessa's Avatar

01.10.2012 , 06:18 PM | #851
I think a lot of you are going to be disappointed when we get a response from Stephen, because what this thread is asking for and what YOU are asking for are two completely different things. This thread was created when 1.1 went up on the PTR and people discovered that the "Medium" texture option had been removed from the game. Instead, 1.1 now has the old medium textures labeled as "High" and there are now only two texture options (Low and "High"). The OP of this thread and most of the initial respondents wanted an explanation as to why this change was made and why it was not included in the patch notes. THIS is what I am expecting a response about tomorrow. People who want to read/hear when specifically high res textures will be added to the game will likely be disappointed when Stephen answers a different question than the one you are asking.
If you stab me in the back, I'll shoot you in the face.

fenlock's Avatar

01.10.2012 , 06:18 PM | #852
Pretty much confirms what I expected, they are readying a political answer.

Basically guys the engine doesn't run well with the high res textures enabled. That's why they have been reduced to poor quality outside of cut scenes. It's not a bug, it's a quick and dirty fix to a much bigger problem. If high res textures are on, over time the client likely becomes very unstable with memory leaks and bad performance, and/or possibly causes lag for other local players.

Chances are this wasnt discovered until fairly late in the development / stress testing. That would also explain why high textures and AA were all enabled early on in the betas.

There will be 2 options on the table behind the scenes. Either spend a significant amount of time optimising / rewriting the engine to compensate (bioware won't do this) or carry on with a stable engine and poor textures. Naturally for bioware the awsner is option 2, but they know that the player base won't like this - so now they have to word it very carefully to avoid as much back lash as possible.

My guess would be that the next official response will include lines such as "making the game stable is our number one priority" and "we will be working on adding new and exciting graphical updates in the future".

I will happily eat humble pie if I'm wrong, but some how I feel the force with me on this one and trust my instincts.

Tartilus's Avatar

01.10.2012 , 06:20 PM | #853
Quote: Originally Posted by FlawlessSoul View Post
I did read thoroughly. Maybe you, along with Ohlen, should actually read the forums more thoroughly. Most people posting about performance issues are doing so because they have a low spec PC and are getting lower performance than they expect? Bull. Most are posting because they have a high spec PC and are getting ridiculously low performance. This is entirely aside from the texture issues.
So it's your suggestion that:

A. You have an accurate understanding of the breakdown of individuals posting on the forums (that is, the portion of them who have have high-end computers, the portion who are incorrectly claiming that they have high-end computers, and the portion who have low-end computers.)

B. That individuals who choose to post on the forums represent - in what could only be called a miracle of statistics - an accurate sample of individuals with FPS issues.

C. That you have deduced (I presume through some sort of force-like psychic ability) that of those individuals who claim to have both high-end rigs and FPS issues, the root cause of their problems are the fault of the engine and not one of the literally hundreds of player-side issues that could result in such a drop (old drivers, bogged down computer, overheating, bad OCs, etc.)

D. That Bioware is lying, against their own monetary self interest, or is otherwise ignoring all the data they have access to.

E. That you have revealed this most foul conspiracy, based on the aforementioned sampling and your own anecdote, and are accordingly qualified to call 'bull.'

wifeaggro's Avatar

01.10.2012 , 06:21 PM | #854
Quote: Originally Posted by WarheartZero View Post
As Han Solo said, "I have a bad feeling about this".
Me too Han me too. I remember a dev interview form 2009 stating they had to rewrite hero a year into deveolpment because it would not support all the users they had working on TOR , they also said they could not longer get updates for the engine because it was completely ripped apart and put back together. The hero engine form 2007 is not that great hero today is a decent engine though it was meant to be able to be patched and updated fast. it lacked a lot of other features a Big AAA title would want for a persistent game world. I dont think we will see any graphical features added for TOR until at least late summer. it will take them at least that long to code all the fixes and additions them selves instead of accepting Hero's updates.

Cicatrize's Avatar

01.10.2012 , 06:21 PM | #855
Get ready for a response explaining why they took out the global character high res textures and why it won't be put in anytime soon. That's why they are making sure the response is approved. This is how PR people professionally make the best out of a ****** situation.

sessava's Avatar

01.10.2012 , 06:22 PM | #856
To be honest, and I hate being the typical annoying SWTOR forum poster here, I don't understand what has happened in the months since beta. I played for a few weeks and then stopped as to not spoil the experience, and the game back then was overall much better than the game I am playing now. There was a lot more armor variety, you really felt like a Sith or a Bounty Hunter, whatever, and the game looked really good graphically I felt. I understood it's not a fantastic looking MMO due to the poor technical specs of people that BioWare wants to tap into, but it sort of had that WoW-vibe of looking really good because of the work and detail and love put into the environment, armor, and characters.

I very much enjoyed my time in beta. There have been many things that they have fixed and improved, including polishing combat a lot, but really, given the choice, I would rather be playing the game in its beta state versus the state it is in right now. I just don't see how BioWare made so many mistakes and poor decisions since, and how the game now has so many flaws and problems that didn't exist at all in beta. Great features such as 'match colour to chestpiece' are gone, and why? What is their justification for removing things like that? I don't understand BioWare at all and really it makes me really worried for the future of this MMO, because clearly BioWare is out of touch with what their consumers want.

I'm not going to threaten to quit playing, because I view that as childish, but really, I think a lot of people are looking at whatever BioWare's response to this high-texture issue will be and BioWare needs to realize that. If your response is that you can't fix it, justified by a bunch of things that most people won't understand, that's not really acceptable. You do the impossible if it's impossible, and you fix it, because that will impress people. Doing the opposite will drive people away.

There needs to be a lot more developer posts than there currently are, talking and responding to the issues that people are having and discussing the plans that are in place to tackle those issues. Because these issues DO exist, BioWare, and you will lose customers if you just ignore them or give phoned in, lazy answers to them. I'm not going to echo the sentiments of the people in this thread and mock you for getting a nice, well-developed technical answer from your staff, but this answer should've been out weeks ago, and you should have already fixed whatever the problem is with high-textures.

Lots of people may say it's just a game and there's no need to take it seriously, but this is a big investment for some people, and for some people this is what they do when they come home to relax from work, or school, it's their hobby and it should be respected. If people are paying for something, their views best be respected by the developers. Those MMO's that ignore their customers and do not try as hard as they can to please them, those MMO's are the ones that fail.

Don't let this become another Warhammer.
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Zorvan's Avatar

01.10.2012 , 06:24 PM | #857
Quote: Originally Posted by StephenReid View Post
Hey all, I am here to apologize again... the good news is we have a draft of our response (you might be able to guess it's not a sentence or two) but I am circulating it internally to ensure my technical details are correct.

To give you an insight into our process here... as the Community team does with most big replies, I tracked down a variety of people on our client and art teams to get the facts on how the game works before putting the post together. As I'm representing those teams publicly, I want to ensure they're happy with what I'm saying on their behalf before I post it. They're busy people, so I'm just waiting on their sign-off right now.

I appreciate your patience and assuming we have sign-off this evening, you'll get our response tomorrow. If not, I accept the incoming rotten eggs.
Well, the first "tomorrow" came and went as it became known as "today".

So, will the new "tomorrow" find us waiting until the following "tomorrow" because noone could find a pen to "sign off" on the "early draft" "today"?

Freadren's Avatar

01.10.2012 , 06:26 PM | #858
Quote: Originally Posted by Oddzball View Post
What i meant to say;

Anisotropic filteringCan help with textures.(My bad, fixed)

But it basically takes samples (of which you can change the multipliter) of pixels and aggregates colour values to smooth them out.

High levels of AF can make things look very blurry.

So with AF enabled your bad textures will just look like blurry bad textures.
Just to clear this up, AF results in the opposite of what you're saying in practice and reduces blurring. Anisotropic Filtering results in preservation of texture detail as the plane the texture is on is tilted towards being parallel to the line of sight of the observer. With normal Bi/Trilinear filtering, you'll notice a textured plane looks really blurry as the plane gets more edge-on to the observer whereas AF allows these tilted textures to retain their sharpness (easiest way to see this in practice is how the sharpness of a floor texture varies as you look into the distance) progressively higher AF sampling rates allow more retention of sharpness at smaller angles from parallel with some performance penalty (in the previous example, the ground texture would seem sharper out to a further distance from the observer)

CarverX's Avatar

01.10.2012 , 06:27 PM | #859
Well here is basically the deal after posting in this thread and the others for the last few days.

When the first scenes from this game were introduced, people thought they were rather cartoonish but probably fun. Now can we at least get the cartoonish???

Here is the most glaring example of what has happened to anyone who has been a sith:

Check the date. That's an actual gameplay photo, and any sith inquisitor knows that armor looks NOTHING like that in game.

Yet, that is what you advertised, this is a problem we reported since beta and buying the game we assumed would be fixed.
The Shadowlands

Tartilus's Avatar

01.10.2012 , 06:28 PM | #860
Quote: Originally Posted by Zorvan View Post
Well, the first "tomorrow" came and went as it became known as "today".

So, will the new "tomorrow" find us waiting until the following "tomorrow" because noone could find a pen to "sign off" on the "early draft" "today"?
Is this a question, or whining? Because it doesn't look like a question.