http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/the-future-of-mmos

 

The issue with SW:TOR, and indeed post-WoW MMOs in general, involves game play elements AND commercial elements. MMORPGs take a great deal of money to develop, and SW:TOR is evidence of that. They take upwards of $100 million USD generally, and because of this no single game studio (except for Blizzard) can independently fund one.

 

This means that they have to resort to investors or a publisher. Since the investors and/or publishers don't care about any projects the game studios care about and only care about money, game studios are forced to take the road of "least risk" when developing new MMOs. In short, this means basing the MMO on something that they *KNOW* is successful, which is essentially WoW. In reality, however, this is actually the road of "most risk" since WoW-clones have historically always failed, and will continue to always fail.

 

This is glaring obvious in SW:TOR, especially in the end-game, where there isn't much content at all presently. There's 1 operation, along with a few recycles flash points, and then 1 stand-alone boss. That's it; there's no more.

Blizzard has devoted too much time and effort into their product. Bioware, Mythic, or ANYONE ELSE for that matter simply can not compete. MMOs are a monopolistic market by nature, and that won't be changing any time soon.

 

It appears that SW:TOR will venture down the same road as Warhammer: Online and indeed Rift when it comes to over-all success, because WoW will slowly attrition players from it (WoW has already pulled me back in after playing SW:TOR), and will eventually leave the MMO defunct and in a position where it must go F2P, and take the journey down a road to its demise.

 

So, let's not get our hopes up just to be crushed, we all know where SW:TOR is going. Rampant gameplay issues, bugs, a lack of general content spells ultimate defeat for this game. It's true that WoW's launch was generally inferior (some aspects of WoW's launch were superior to this one) to SW:TOR's product, but the marketplace will judge SW:TOR based on WoW's current merits. Unfortunately for SW:TOR, WoW is vastly superior to it in an over-all sense, and it seems as though Bioware was not able to conquer the juggernaut of the industry.

 

 

 

 

TL;DR: a general synopsis of what I said would be that SW:TOR will most likely not be able to compete with WoW, both due to gameplay and commercial issues, and will likely go F2P sooner or later. Now don't just read this 'TL;DR' and enter a rage, but rather look at my ENTIRE post for an explanation of everything. If you don't want to read the entire OP, but want to reply anyway, you run the risk of looking quite dumb.

Edited January 7, 2012 by Xugos

They already made all the cash from development back via pre-launch and can terminate services in 30days on short notice at any given time, if say in the unlikely event, that no one plays anymore. Edited January 7, 2012 by Ommm

I love all these armchair experts coming out of the woodwork with their doom and gloom outlook.

 

Time will tell. If it fails or goes F2P (which is also fail in my book) then so be it. You never know it might do alright.

They already made all the cash from development back via pre launch and can terminate service in 30days.

 

No, they have not at all. That is a load of misinformation. There is no way in heck Bioware even reimbursed $80 million of their costs from launch.

 

 

$59.99*~1.2 million subscribers = ~72 million. AND THAT'S GROSS SALES. Bioware likely received approximately ~12-20 million from that 72 million.

 

 

So, no, they have not recovered costs at ALL.

I love all these armchair experts coming out of the woodwork with their doom and gloom outlook.

 

Time will tell. If it fails or goes F2P (which is also fail in my book) then so be it. You never know it might do alright.

 

Armchair experts or not, they were right for Warhammer: Online, Rift, and Aion, and they will be right for SW:TOR.

 

 

You see, you're attacking the credibility of the person making the argument instead of the argument itself. That detriments your own credibility when it comes to making a strong rebuttal, but it also shows that the only argument you have is one that employs 'ad-hominem logic,' which is a fallacy.

In before another Xugos thread gets locked for being not directly about SWTOR.

"Keep in mind that EA expensed the development cost when incurred, so much of the disc sales revenue will be profit."

 

From here:

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-11-30-lucasarts-to-take-around-35-percent-of-old-republic-revenue-report

 

 

The quote is from Michael Pacther. You can look him up if you want.

No, they have not at all. That is a load of misinformation. There is no way in heck Bioware even reimbursed $80 million of their costs from launch.

 

 

$59.99*~1.2 million subscribers = ~72 million. AND THAT'S GROSS SALES. Bioware likely received approximately ~12-20 million from that 72 million.

 

 

So, no, they have not recovered costs at ALL.

 

Plus the subscription fees and all the CE sales.

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/the-future-of-mmos

 

The issue with SW:TOR, and indeed post-WoW MMOs in general, involves game play elements AND commercial elements. MMORPGs take a great deal of money to develop, and SW:TOR is evidence of that. They take upwards of $100 million USD generally, and because of this no single game studio (except for Blizzard) can independently fund one.

 

This means that they have to resort to investors or a publisher. Since the investors and/or publishers don't care about any projects the game studios care about and only care about money, game studios are forced to take the road of "least risk" when developing new MMOs. In short, this means basing the MMO on something that they *KNOW* is successful, which is essentially WoW. In reality, however, this is actually the road of "most risk" since WoW-clones have historically always failed, and will continue to always fail.

 

Blizzard has devoted to much time and effort into their product. Bioware, Mythic, or ANYONE ELSE for that matter simply can not compete. MMOs are a monopolistic market by nature, and that won't be changing any time soon.

 

It appears that SW:TOR will venture down the same road as Warhammer: Online and indeed Rift when it comes to over-all success, because WoW will slowly attrition players from it (WoW has already pulled me back in after playing SW:TOR), and will eventually leave the MMO defunct and in a position where it must go F2P, and take the journey down a road to its demise.

 

So, let's not get our hopes up just to be crushed, we all know where SW:TOR is going. Rampant gameplay issues, bugs, a lack of general content spells ultimate defeat for this game. It's true that WoW's launch was generally inferior (some aspects of WoW's launch were superior to this one) to SW:TOR's product, but the marketplace will judge SW:TOR based on WoW's current merits. Unfortunately for SW:TOR, WoW is vastly superior to it in an over-all sense, and it seems as though Bioware was not able to conquer the juggernaut of the industry.

 

 

 

TL;DR: a general synopsis of what I said would be that SW:TOR will most likely not be able to compete with WoW, both due to gameplay and commercial issues, and will likely go F2P sooner or later. Now don't just read this 'TL;DR' and enter a rage, but rather look at my ENTIRE post for an explanation of everything. If you don't want to read the entire OP, but want to reply anyway, you run the risk of looking quite dumb.

 

 

Why are you still here posting after all this time. Shouldn't you have gone back to wow already.. ask yourself that why are you still here?

 

You continually say we all know we all agree I am not included in that we.. this is a big assumption on your part.

 

WoW is vastly superior... In your opinion... SWTOR is better in some areas then wow whether you like it or not..

 

Your post is biased and makes sweeping assumptions and generalizations.

 

 

Blizzards MMO is polished, streamlined, slick, convenient, without character and souless completely the opposite of SWTOR

 

WoW never used to be like that.. WoW never used to be bleeding subs either it used to be growing.

I cant fathom why keep people saying things like it will go f2p sooner or later.

 

That's like saying everyone will die sooner or later.

 

Suck it up and give us a good guess so we can either laugh at you when you are horribly wrong. Or go Damn that random goofnut from the interwebs is smart!

No, they have not at all. That is a load of misinformation. There is no way in heck Bioware even reimbursed $80 million of their costs from launch.

 

 

$59.99*~1.2 million subscribers = ~72 million. AND THAT'S GROSS SALES. Bioware likely received approximately ~12-20 million from that 72 million.

 

 

So, no, they have not recovered costs at ALL.

 

Dont forget the collector and digital delux edition sales. Personally i guess it is close to 90 Million. As to why bioware (which is a division of ea) should only recieve 12-20 million from that is alittle beyond me. Are you chairman or something?

Edited January 7, 2012 by Ommm

Plus the subscription fees and all the CE sales.

 

Subscription fees won't be taken in until the free 30 days end. The free 30 days are billed first.

 

 

Also, the CE sales difference is negligible for two reasons:

 

 

1. Most sales were not CE sales (reasonable assumption.)

 

 

2. CE sales involve other objects, such as a flare gun, which must also be manufactured, so Bioware's actual cut doesn't increase, necessarily, by much if at all.

WoW has already pulled me back in after playing SW:TOR

 

As far as I needed to go. Opinion noted and dismissed.

Dont forget the collector and digital delux edition sales. Personally i guess it is close to 90 Million. As to why bioware (which is a division of ea) should only recieve 12-20 million from that is alittle beyond me.

 

It's called costs. The retailer gets a cut, and the publisher gets a cut. After that, they have to pay for server maintenance, and they have to pay their employees. After THAT, their actual money goes towards development/profit.

 

 

My estimate was too generous if anything.

 

 

2. CE sales involve other objects, such as a flare gun, which must also be manufactured, so Bioware's actual cut doesn't increase, necessarily, by much if at all.

 

Thats pretty uninformed. It does not take much dev time at all. Essentially you are getting nothing in the package.

 

It is like virtual gold, except essentially you dont even own it.

 

But still ppl buy it.

Edited January 7, 2012 by Ommm

Please explain the "even dangerous" part of your subject line. I cannot wait to hear it.

You could, you know, stop getting sucked back in to scrubby games like WoW.

Armchair experts or not, they were right for Warhammer: Online, Rift, and Aion, and they will be right for SW:TOR.

 

well duh, it's called saying something and after it really happens you sit back and say... SEEEEEE I TOLD YOU!!! People had no idea what would happen to any of those games. They merely ran their mouths and spouted enough junk that they hoped would stick in the end.

 

Here, I will say something. One day the earth's sun will fail. See, in time my comment will eventually come true.

 

I win - and I am a visionary. Obviously.

Thats pretty uninformed. It does not take much dev time at all. Essentially you are getting nothing in the package.

 

It is like virtual gold, except essentially you dont even own it.

 

But still ppl buy it.

 

 

That's the digital deluxe edition, DDE, not CE.

This game isn't going to fall on its face, nor do I believe anyone on the forums could just look at a game and claim this. It's ridiculous. If any new MMO comes out, everyone compares it to WoW and says how it will fail and go free to play. Do you people get bored or something? Edited January 7, 2012 by MaggotForever

Please explain the purpose of your post. Obviously you don't play this game anymore. You've gone back to WoW and SWTOR doesn't interest you. Between this one and the one you made yesterday/early this morning, you're attempting to wax poetic about the demise of this game in some way but not providing anything beneficial to the community. When you whittle away your piss-poor attempt at over-wrought word play it all boils down to explaining something that you know full well will only set off fans of this game and then you begin to reply incessantly to virtually every post made and pick and choose elements of it that you think you can argue against.

 

No one cares if it goes F2P right now. Hell, you don't care! You don't play. People enjoy this game and are clearly willing to pay the $15 a month to continue playing. Why are you trying to explain all this with your dictionary and thesaurus sitting next to you on the desk? It serves no purpose but an half-arsed attempt at riling up the natives about a game they enjoy.

 

I think an old adage applies well here: "If you don't have something nice to say...."

 

I'll let you finish it.

Edited January 7, 2012 by aznthecapn

That post sounded to me like something they paid a guy to write...

 

I dont see the big deal with TOR having used alot of the same buildup as WoW, if **** aint brok, dont fix it... Easy as that. It's the other things that seperate them that matters, and in TOR, thats the proper storys for each class, the enviroment, the compainon system, player/npc interaction, and to me atleast, it's friggin' STAR WARS!!!

 

We all know there are issues and bugs in the game, there's no denying that, but hell, even WoW has weakly maintanence and patches rolling out, and that game is 6 years old? People here complain after bearly a month after release...

I sure BW is working their asses of fixing bugs and issues, so have some patience, and be gratefull they even made this game in the firstplace, I know I am, and I'll be playing this game a loooooooooooooooong time

That's the digital deluxe edition, DDE, not CE.

 

Ok, true they said they gonna develope the shop for the ce ppl...... atm its basicly entirely empty tho.

 

And i doubt it will be new meshes........probably same stuff with diffrent colour, new names and stats.......

not much work if you know how.

 

Its what mmo's do. This is how they make money and its calculated for the most part with their work hours.

Edited January 7, 2012 by Ommm

No, they have not at all. That is a load of misinformation. There is no way in heck Bioware even reimbursed $80 million of their costs from launch.

 

 

$59.99*~1.2 million subscribers = ~72 million. AND THAT'S GROSS SALES. Bioware likely received approximately ~12-20 million from that 72 million.

 

 

So, no, they have not recovered costs at ALL.

 

And you think it was Bioware who stood for the 100 million? More likely EA and other companys came up with the money.

Blizzards MMO is polished, streamlined, slick, convenient, without character and souless completely the opposite of SWTOR

 

That's how I feel about WoW now and why I stopped playing. It's probably also because I played it too much. But it feels like when every rotation wasn't so overdesigned (I've always hated the idea of a rotation and much prefer simple class mechanics but more reactive fights where the abilities you use depend on awareness and not rehearsed mechanics) and when the game was a bit less streamlined, it was more fun to play. There were big problems, but we enjoyed it regardless.

 

Right now I'm enjoying TOR a lot because of the quests, but I fear that I will see endgame as a poor WoW clone in a Star Wars costume. I am not quite there yep, and I hope I am wrong about this.