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Favorite Romance Relationship in SWTOR?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Favorite Romance Relationship in SWTOR?

IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
07.22.2017 , 04:04 AM | #461
Quote: Originally Posted by OldVengeance View Post
It's worth keeping in mind Vaylin is as guilty as Arcann is when it comes to genocide. He told Vaylin to annihilate 5 worlds, but she was the one who picked them.
The armies of Zakuul have been busy destroying worlds for five years, though, and that's been under Arcann's command, not Vaylin's. Also, I feel like Arcann should have slightly more of a moral compass because he didn't spend 10+ years locked in an asylum, being tortured into an insane sociopath. Not excusing either of them, of course - their actions are on their heads - but IMHO Arcann *is* more culpable and has done far more damage.

Nefla's Avatar


Nefla
07.22.2017 , 05:34 AM | #462
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
You've just totally given my rationale for why I hated Arcann - yes, he had major daddy issues, but the fact was, as an adult he chose to make the decisions he did - committing genocide, being a cruel and despotic ruler, framing the Outlander and putting them in carbonite (and being 'meh' when the Outlander calls him on that...and if you look close, Arcann has collected an entire room of carbonite trophies), killing his own brother, etc.

As far as I was concerned, whatever the Voss mystics did to "cleanse his rage" made no difference; he as a horrible human being who had never been held accountable for his own actions. My character sure as h**l was not going to trust him, let him off the hook and allow him into the Alliance. She was going to kill him, and she did.

Vaylin on the other hand, was also a monster - and her childhood experiences didn't override that, she did make her own choices. She had no compassion, no empathy, and was a perfect sociopath. She needed to die. But on the other hand, I did feel empathy/sympathy for the fact that she had also been actively, horribly tortured, emotionally and physically, for what looked like more than a decade, and her own parents arranged it.

So even though my SW would have killed her very slowly and painfully, just for what she did to Lana on the Gravestone (I loved the line she had there - something like, "you hurt Lana so now I'll hurt you"), I wish there had been a way to at least put her spirit to rest. I would not have been cool with a "hey, let's forgive everything! Welcome aboard, Vaylin!" ending. I wasn't cool with it for Arcann. But I would have been fine with a "you know what, walk into the light peacefully, nobody will torture you again" ending.
Definitely legit reasons for hating Arcann. If he hadn't been laying there in a coma/unconscious when we make the decision to kill him and he'd just snapped the neck of one of our friends for fun then I'd have killed him too. Killing an unconscious man while is mother begged us not to didn't sit well with me and he appeared to be in our custody. By the time you see him again he's helpful and repentant so no reason for me to kill him at that point. I expected either Vaylin to become the sane and rational one (ex: "hey bro it's dumb to kill half our knights) and join us in rebellion when her brother goes too far OR for Arcann to be more sane and reasonable and Vaylin to get slowly worse and then depose him (as they kept hinting at her being traitorous and resentful) and either kills him or HE joins us. The way they did it was weird and deus ex machina-y with the whole Voss healing thing but there has been somewhat of a precedent with the Inquisitor and Agent I guess so I'll allow it and chock it up to lazy writing.

If Vaylin had shown any form of remorse or a desire to change I'd have spared her (it it had let us) on some characters but yeah I'm still resentful of having to team up with her against Valkorion. Also Vette and Torian are some of my favorite characters.

IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
07.22.2017 , 05:53 AM | #463
Quote: Originally Posted by Nefla View Post
Definitely legit reasons for hating Arcann. If he hadn't been laying there in a coma/unconscious when we make the decision to kill him and he'd just snapped the neck of one of our friends for fun then I'd have killed him too. Killing an unconscious man while is mother begged us not to didn't sit well with me and he appeared to be in our custody. By the time you see him again he's helpful and repentant so no reason for me to kill him at that point. I expected either Vaylin to become the sane and rational one (ex: "hey bro it's dumb to kill half our knights) and join us in rebellion when her brother goes too far OR for Arcann to be more sane and reasonable and Vaylin to get slowly worse and then depose him (as they kept hinting at her being traitorous and resentful) and either kills him or HE joins us. The way they did it was weird and deus ex machina-y with the whole Voss healing thing but there has been somewhat of a precedent with the Inquisitor and Agent I guess so I'll allow it and chock it up to lazy writing.

If Vaylin had shown any form of remorse or a desire to change I'd have spared her (it it had let us) on some characters but yeah I'm still resentful of having to team up with her against Valkorion. Also Vette and Torian are some of my favorite characters.
I hear you. One of the reasons I held back on going to KOTFE was because I didn't want to lose Vette as a companion even temporarily. My Sith Warrior was LS and during the class storyline said that Vette was the little sister she didn't even know she needed - they are totally BFFs, so all the times that Vaylin went after her really made me angry, definitely (I guess you can tell who my SW chose to save). And what happens with Torian/Vette if they're not saved is beyond sadistic - two of the most likeable characters in the game, and you have to make such a horrible choice.

You actually don't kill Arcann in Voss, or even try to - but he does decide to go postal and kill all the mystics, totally unprovoked, before running away without even trying to help his mother. Yep, he takes out about four defenseless people and then ditches the one person who tried to rescue him. You kill him in Zakuul, when he's fitted out with new implants and attacks *you*. If nothing else, my SW could consider it as self-defense, in the same way killing Senya was self-defense because she made the first move. And he did throw my character into carbonite when *she* was unconscious and defenseless, so there's that...

I agree with you on the writing re: Vaylin and Arcann. Up until KOTET, Vaylin seems like she's teetering on the edge of deposing Arcann, she makes some reasonable suggestions (like questioning killing the knights) and she's actually joking with the Outlander at some points - I did wonder if she was going to be the one to turn, especially when she teamed up with Scorpio.

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Nefla
07.22.2017 , 01:56 PM | #464
I didn't know he went nutso and started killing people in some versions, do you have to stop him from being healed for this to happen? Definitely can't be blamed for killing him in response. I agree wholeheartedly about the companion death, it was just so brutal and shocking. If it had been like Virmire which the choice mimicked where whoever you don't save just falls in battle or gets blown up offscreen it'd still suck but it wouldn't have made me scream and throw things. It was also so unexpected because in all these years SWtOR had never killed a companion before so I didn't see it coming.

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IoNonSoEVero
07.22.2017 , 02:41 PM | #465
Quote: Originally Posted by Nefla View Post
I didn't know he went nutso and started killing people in some versions, do you have to stop him from being healed for this to happen? Definitely can't be blamed for killing him in response. I agree wholeheartedly about the companion death, it was just so brutal and shocking. If it had been like Virmire which the choice mimicked where whoever you don't save just falls in battle or gets blown up offscreen it'd still suck but it wouldn't have made me scream and throw things. It was also so unexpected because in all these years SWtOR had never killed a companion before so I didn't see it coming.
The visuals make it so much worse, yes. It was one time where I would have appreciated a fade to black, or something implied offscreen - like you can't reach Vette/Torian on the holo anymore, and someone tells you they didn't make it. Seeing it happen was beyond horrible, especially since it seems for a moment like they're going to get to safety. HK-55 died too, but even though I was very fond of him, he was only around for about five chapters, and the player doesn't have the history/attachment'/time to bond with him that one has with Torian and/or Vette.

I'm only grateful that BW did leave it as a choice, that you could at least save one. If they'd killed off Vette (or either of them, but particularly Vette for me) without letting me save her I think I would have quit the game.

For Arcann in Voss - you argue with Senya, and Arcann's across the room, with the mystics. There's that line where Senya asks you to trust her, and if you refuse, he goes nuts, starts yelling about his father, and kills everyone around him. You're actually nowhere near him at the time, and unfortunately you don't have the opportunity to even try to stop him or save the poor mystics. He just atomizes them. It's like, once you decide to kill him, he gives you lots of reasons to think your choice was justified.

The only direct interaction you have with Arcann in that chapter, if you choose to kill instead of redeem him, is that after you fight Senya, you track him down while he's boarding his shuttle. You have the choice to tell him a) you killed Senya; b) Lie and tell him that HE killed Senya when he killed the mystics; c) say nothing and just try to get him. My SW chose to just try to attack him (he's ambulatory, awake and operating a shuttle at that point) but he takes off before you can clobber him. And then in Chapter 6 he comes back at the end of the chapter, fights Vaylin and then goes after you.

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Nefla
07.22.2017 , 03:54 PM | #466
Hm, I wonder if they made it that way in order to not "punish" players for choosing "wrong?" Like if you choose to kill him and he flips out and kills everyone but then you finally put him down you're 100% right in your decision but if you'd chosen to spare him and he gets away and causes even more damage and destruction then you would have chosen "wrong" and they don't want to "punish" the players for a choice these days. As it stands, no matter what you choose you were right. Decide to kill Arcann? Well good because he proves you right and kills everyone. Decide to spare him? Well good because he proves you right and comes to help you and joins your cause.

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IoNonSoEVero
07.22.2017 , 05:16 PM | #467
Quote: Originally Posted by Nefla View Post
Hm, I wonder if they made it that way in order to not "punish" players for choosing "wrong?" Like if you choose to kill him and he flips out and kills everyone but then you finally put him down you're 100% right in your decision but if you'd chosen to spare him and he gets away and causes even more damage and destruction then you would have chosen "wrong" and they don't want to "punish" the players for a choice these days. As it stands, no matter what you choose you were right. Decide to kill Arcann? Well good because he proves you right and kills everyone. Decide to spare him? Well good because he proves you right and comes to help you and joins your cause.
it would make sense if they did, in that case, since there are the two different ways of looking at the situation, and people can feel very strongly and make good arguments for or against saving him. It might very well be encouragement for the player to do what *they* feel is the best option rather than trying to parse out what the game wants them to do. And there's one LS choice and one DS choice in KOTET that each bring help in the final battles.

Along the same lines, even though Theron and Lana are both there (and they do give their opinions earlier in the chapter, if you ask them), at that point, neither of them makes any comment or approves/disapproves the choice to kill Arcann/not trust Senya. They just silently wait for you to make the decision. It might be for the same reason; the devs want the player to do what they feel is best on their own.