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Mace Wimdu and Darth Sidious


Antar-Bavarick's Avatar


Antar-Bavarick
01.06.2012 , 10:14 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Barrechor View Post
Its widely known that Sidious was far from being the most powerful sith lord ever. He was a choir boy compared to some of the earlier emperors.

Mace Windu was a very powerful Jedi and would rightly give Sidious a run for his money.

The big question however and the thing that really winds me up is; How does Sidious kill Kit Fisto so easily. A true master of Shii-cho and a Jedi legend, gets cut down in half a second?

I dont think so Mr Lucas....
I think it had more to do with Fisto and the other jedi being taken by surprise than anything else. They went to arrest Palpatine, thinking he would come peacefully like a nice old man. Instead they got a nasty shock from the darkside and before anyone could think of anything Sidious was upon them slashing with a lightsaber (which they also probably didnt think he had) and in the confusion Kitt just got cought by surprise.

BrandonSM's Avatar


BrandonSM
01.06.2012 , 10:48 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Grimnaar View Post
Just wondering, if Darth Sidious was the most powerful sith lord ever and could kill people with a single burst of lightning. How powerful was Mace Windu to be able to reflect it back on sidious and almost kill him?

Was Mace just as or more powerful than Yoda?
Windu is in my opinion, the second best duelist in SW. Standing right behind Luke.

He mastered all 7 forms and created one, and then he has shatterpoint.


He beat Palpatine in terms of Lightsaber combat, but Windu is little compared to Palpatine in terms of the Force. Palpatine was seconds before disarming WIndu with his lightning, Windu(As stated by Rhyltran, your my evidence) was dead before he flew out the window.


Windu, domination.
Hapan: "This creature has information that could lead us to a woman who has been kidnapped. We will get that information."
Luke: "This woman is a citizen of the New Republic, and if you do not take your hands off her, I will take your hands off you."

BrandonSM's Avatar


BrandonSM
01.06.2012 , 10:50 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Barrechor View Post
Its widely known that Sidious was far from being the most powerful sith lord ever. He was a choir boy compared to some of the earlier emperors.

Mace Windu was a very powerful Jedi and would rightly give Sidious a run for his money.

The big question however and the thing that really winds me up is; How does Sidious kill Kit Fisto so easily. A true master of Shii-cho and a Jedi legend, gets cut down in half a second?

I dont think so Mr Lucas....
Windu stayed because of Vapaad. The movie didn't show it because it would look weird, but think of Sidious as moving like the Flash.

Vapaad is all about speed, therefore he could keep up in the beginning.
Hapan: "This creature has information that could lead us to a woman who has been kidnapped. We will get that information."
Luke: "This woman is a citizen of the New Republic, and if you do not take your hands off her, I will take your hands off you."

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
01.06.2012 , 10:54 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by BrandonSM View Post
Windu stayed because of Vapaad. The movie didn't show it because it would look weird, but think of Sidious as moving like the Flash.

Vapaad is all about speed, therefore he could keep up in the beginning.
Plus Vapaad isn't a normal fighting style like the other jedi masters were using, so he quickly dispatched the other masters because he was moving fast and knowing most likely what style they were using and able to exploit the weakness of each one to kill them. Least thats how I saw it really.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Rhyltran's Avatar


Rhyltran
01.06.2012 , 11:21 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Barrechor View Post
Its widely known that Sidious was far from being the most powerful sith lord ever. He was a choir boy compared to some of the earlier emperors.

Mace Windu was a very powerful Jedi and would rightly give Sidious a run for his money.

The big question however and the thing that really winds me up is; How does Sidious kill Kit Fisto so easily. A true master of Shii-cho and a Jedi legend, gets cut down in half a second?

I dont think so Mr Lucas....
This is wrong. Sidious by far the most powerful Sith in star wars.

Adamous's Avatar


Adamous
01.07.2012 , 05:41 AM | #16
"Shortly afterwards, Anakin tells Windu he has learned that Palpatine is in fact the Sith Lord Darth Sidious. Windu, accompanied by Jedi Masters Kit Fisto, Agen Kolar, and Saesee Tiin, goes to the Chancellor's office to confront him. Resisting arrest, Palpatine brandishes a red lightsaber and launches himself at the Jedi, killing all three of Windu's companions and engaging him in a lightsaber duel. Windu gains the upper hand and disarms the Sith Lord, who fires Force lightning at him; Windu blocks the lightning with his lightsaber and directs it back at Palpatine, scarring the Sith Lord's face. Anakin then arrives and Palpatine begs for help, stating that only he can save Anakin's wife, Padmé Amidala (Natalie Portman). Anakin pleads with Windu not to kill the Chancellor, and that he should stand trial before the Senate. Windu replies that Palpatine controls both the Senate and the courts, and is too dangerous to be kept alive. As Windu prepares to strike, Anakin intervenes and severs Windu's lightsaber hand. Palpatine then casts off his illusion of weakness, and hits Windu with another torrent of lightning, sending Windu plunging out of the chamber window to his death."

sorry for the long winded quote.. got this from wikipedia (but is referenced to starwars.com).

so i guess this means windu was stronger... also tells you why he has ther purple lightsaber there somewhere.... or rather it makes a reason for samuel l jackson to have one lol.

hope this helps.

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Rhyltran's Avatar


Rhyltran
01.07.2012 , 06:03 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Adamous View Post
"Shortly afterwards, Anakin tells Windu he has learned that Palpatine is in fact the Sith Lord Darth Sidious. Windu, accompanied by Jedi Masters Kit Fisto, Agen Kolar, and Saesee Tiin, goes to the Chancellor's office to confront him. Resisting arrest, Palpatine brandishes a red lightsaber and launches himself at the Jedi, killing all three of Windu's companions and engaging him in a lightsaber duel. Windu gains the upper hand and disarms the Sith Lord, who fires Force lightning at him; Windu blocks the lightning with his lightsaber and directs it back at Palpatine, scarring the Sith Lord's face. Anakin then arrives and Palpatine begs for help, stating that only he can save Anakin's wife, Padmé Amidala (Natalie Portman). Anakin pleads with Windu not to kill the Chancellor, and that he should stand trial before the Senate. Windu replies that Palpatine controls both the Senate and the courts, and is too dangerous to be kept alive. As Windu prepares to strike, Anakin intervenes and severs Windu's lightsaber hand. Palpatine then casts off his illusion of weakness, and hits Windu with another torrent of lightning, sending Windu plunging out of the chamber window to his death."

sorry for the long winded quote.. got this from wikipedia (but is referenced to starwars.com).

so i guess this means windu was stronger... also tells you why he has ther purple lightsaber there somewhere.... or rather it makes a reason for samuel l jackson to have one lol.

hope this helps.

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Wikipedia fails to mention that Anakin was in the same room as it was going on (the lightning and Windu blocking it) and Windu was just about to lose hi grip on his saber before Sidious goes "I'm too weak. Don't let him kill me"

Gallifrayen's Avatar


Gallifrayen
01.07.2012 , 08:20 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Barrechor View Post
Its widely known that Sidious was far from being the most powerful sith lord ever. He was a choir boy compared to some of the earlier emperors.

Mace Windu was a very powerful Jedi and would rightly give Sidious a run for his money.

The big question however and the thing that really winds me up is; How does Sidious kill Kit Fisto so easily. A true master of Shii-cho and a Jedi legend, gets cut down in half a second?

I dont think so Mr Lucas....
Shii-Cho is the mastery of fighting many opponents not so powerful vs just one.

But yeah those were four very powerful Jedi and its doubtful considering Mace was able to take him down solo that Mace+3 wouldn't fair so well.

Smithie's Avatar


Smithie
01.07.2012 , 08:57 AM | #19
I advise some people watch the clip from Eps III - Windu Vs Sidious
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w16CM7_zPEc

When Windu (and friends) goes to arrest Sidious they weren't caught by surprise. They have their lightsabers out, sidious pulls out his lightsaber and a fight ensues. Kit Fisto did die a very lame way but from a movie point of view as he wasn't a well known character there would of been no point for him to take part in the Windu Vs Sidious duel and die later on (in a maybe cooler fashion)

Windu knows that Sidious is a sith lord and wants to arrest him and bring him to trial. But after the duel he says to Anakin he is to dangerous to keep alive. This leads me to believe that Windu might of gone to far to the dark side to be able to overcome Sidious. He might of had the upper hand but at a cost.
If Windu killed Sidious, would he (windu) have completed his path to the dark side without knowing it?
Or would he still of been able to keep himself on the lightside if he had killed Sidious?

Anakin does walk in before Sidious uses the force lightning. So another question would be was it all staged by Sidious?
Windu did have the upper hand at the end before Anakin walked in. Windu had disarmed Sidious of his lightsaber.
Maybe when Sidious noticed Anakin walking in he used his force lighting knowing that Windu would block it, hence disfiguring himself and even risking his own life to get pity from Anakin. (Sidious ofcourse in the EU has a clone waiting for him so death wouldnt really matter). Sidious was also playing the Padme card to get Anakin onto his side.
Then again it might not of been staged.

Anakin only attacked Windu because he was going to kill Sidious.
Had Windu not attempted to kill Sidious, would Anakin of had helped him (windu) to arrest Sidious? Would then another duel of between Sidious Vs Windu & Anakin happen?
Would Sidious use his force lighting on Windu when he wasnt paying attention and if Sidous had succeeded in defeating Windu try to convince Anakin by using the Padme card that it had to happen this way?

There is a lot of If's & But's that arise from speculating over this fight. Why certain things happened and what could of happend.


Sidious won against Windu but only with the help of Anakin. Windu would of clearly won against Sidious, he had disarmed him of his lightsaber and was going to strike him down, but at what cost and risk of going over to the dark side? Sidious only attacked Windu once Anakin had cut Windu's hand off. Which would of given Sidious the knowledge that Anakin wouldnt fight against him and more likely to join him.

To answer the topic:
I dont believe that Windu was stronger than Sidious. Maybe Windu was better at Lightsaber combat, only second to (some even say on par with) Yoda. Sidious is obviously much stronger with the force.
"Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens"

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Rhyltran's Avatar


Rhyltran
01.07.2012 , 09:42 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Smithie View Post
I advise some people watch the clip from Eps III - Windu Vs Sidious
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w16CM7_zPEc

When Windu (and friends) goes to arrest Sidious they weren't caught by surprise. They have their lightsabers out, sidious pulls out his lightsaber and a fight ensues. Kit Fisto did die a very lame way but from a movie point of view as he wasn't a well known character there would of been no point for him to take part in the Windu Vs Sidious duel and die later on (in a maybe cooler fashion)

Windu knows that Sidious is a sith lord and wants to arrest him and bring him to trial. But after the duel he says to Anakin he is to dangerous to keep alive. This leads me to believe that Windu might of gone to far to the dark side to be able to overcome Sidious. He might of had the upper hand but at a cost.
If Windu killed Sidious, would he (windu) have completed his path to the dark side without knowing it?
Or would he still of been able to keep himself on the lightside if he had killed Sidious?

Anakin does walk in before Sidious uses the force lightning. So another question would be was it all staged by Sidious?
Windu did have the upper hand at the end before Anakin walked in. Windu had disarmed Sidious of his lightsaber.
Maybe when Sidious noticed Anakin walking in he used his force lighting knowing that Windu would block it, hence disfiguring himself and even risking his own life to get pity from Anakin. (Sidious ofcourse in the EU has a clone waiting for him so death wouldnt really matter). Sidious was also playing the Padme card to get Anakin onto his side.
Then again it might not of been staged.

Anakin only attacked Windu because he was going to kill Sidious.
Had Windu not attempted to kill Sidious, would Anakin of had helped him (windu) to arrest Sidious? Would then another duel of between Sidious Vs Windu & Anakin happen?
Would Sidious use his force lighting on Windu when he wasnt paying attention and if Sidous had succeeded in defeating Windu try to convince Anakin by using the Padme card that it had to happen this way?

There is a lot of If's & But's that arise from speculating over this fight. Why certain things happened and what could of happend.


Sidious won against Windu but only with the help of Anakin. Windu would of clearly won against Sidious, he had disarmed him of his lightsaber and was going to strike him down, but at what cost and risk of going over to the dark side? Sidious only attacked Windu once Anakin had cut Windu's hand off. Which would of given Sidious the knowledge that Anakin wouldnt fight against him and more likely to join him.

To answer the topic:
I dont believe that Windu was stronger than Sidious. Maybe Windu was better at Lightsaber combat, only second to (some even say on par with) Yoda. Sidious is obviously much stronger with the force.
Again, he wouldn't have won against Sidious without Anakin. He won the lightsaber duel. This is without question. However, the novelization even states that Windu's grip on his lightsaber was about to give out when suddenly Sidious stopped. Yes he got disfigured and I agree that Windu was flirting with the dark side. Novelization hints at that too by stating he gave himself more into vaapad than ever before. He never allowed himself to push that deeply into his form but he did in that moment.

Either way if Anakin wasn't there. Lightsaber would have flew from his hand and out the window. However, if he offered to arrest him. I have no doubt both him and Anakin together. Would have taken Sidious down. Note he says to Windu "I need him!" if Windu opted to arrest him. Sidious would have failed in his attempt to turn anakin. He wouldn't keep playing at the "Turn anakin card." Sidious has been shown to lose it when he's denied.

"I AM the senet!" "Then young skywalker.. you will die." In Windu "No.. No.. NO" -force lightning-. Likely.. "Let's let him stand trial then." Sidious would have flipped.