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Sith Emperor vs Darth Sidious


darth_freefall's Avatar


darth_freefall
02.12.2012 , 07:55 PM | #81
Vitate will never be more powerful than Sidious

Sidious is the creation of George Lucas.

Vitate is the creation of bioware, a 3rd party company.

Lucas will never allow a character created by someone else to be stronger than who he has said is the most powerful Sith ever.

Makoto_Shishio's Avatar


Makoto_Shishio
02.12.2012 , 09:23 PM | #82
Quote: Originally Posted by Deviss View Post
Just two small things I noticed that I wanted to add to the whole discussion:

If Palpatine is so mighty and exceptional duelist, how come he lost to Mace Windu? Yes, I know that Windu is "one of the finest swordsman of the jedi order" and all. But still, Sidious lost. And don't tell me that he would have won without Anakin's interference because it is clearly not what movie portrays..
For many reasons.

1.) Mace windu is one of the greatest lightsaber duelists ever.
2.) Sidious as of ROTS has been 13 years out of practise with a lightsaber and yet he still managed to kill off "3 of the greatest swordsman of the jedi order" in a swift stroke
3.) He could have overpowered Windu with the force easily but chose to not go all out to manipulate Anakin.
Quote: Originally Posted by Deviss View Post
Also, some people say that Palpatine's 'lightning bolts' are most powerful ones in SW universe. It's one of the arguments for Palpatine's superiority over Vitiate. Well, just read what I wrote before in this thread about Sith Emperor, (information coming from OFFICIAL GAME CODEX). Could Palpatine really become godlike like Vitiate and create new galaxy from the ashes by himself? Could he wipe out entire life in the galaxy? And most important of all, was he also immortal as Vitiate? From what I know he needed to use clones in order to prelong his life (I don't know a lot about EU post EP6 tbh so I may be wrong about that ;p).
Obviously you never read Dark empire.

Let me begin by telling you those statements are merely hyperboles, its the same as exar kun being stated that "every foot steps he makes, the earth trembles beneth his feat" or like Revan being described to be the "heart of the force".

That and the fact that Vitate needed rituals and trinkets which takes time to accomplish most of his feats. Palpatines power all comes from within himself.

1) Palpatine can create hyperspace wormholes(force storms) from his own power that are powerful enough to destroy an entire planets surface and wipe out an [b]entire star fleet[b] killing tens and thousands of soldiers.
2) His very existance caused an imbalance of the force.
3) His lightning killing off 50 storm troopers in one single blast and reducing 3 sith acolytes powerful enough to being maul back from he dead to charred ashes.
4) Force blinding 10 000 jedi
5) His mere presence on byss turning "one of the most lush and fertile planets" into "one of the galaxys most powerful dark side nexus".
6) Constantly draining billions of people on byss while keeping them alive
7) Being respected and being bowed to from the ancient sith


"The Ancient Sith pown new age Sith" don't believe it. It's totally crap and baseless. Naga Sadow, one of the most infamous Ancient Sith, did really nothing except throw a brick with The Force. The accounts of him blowing up stars is clearly stated to be done through his Flagship's technology. This tech could be used by even weaklings lin the Force.

The most powerful Sith Lord EVER is a new age Sith. The Sith is known as Emperor Palpatine/Darth Sidious. Sources to back this up:


"The Rebels were turning out to be more troublesome than many had expected. The Emperor had known it would be thus, of course; the resistance had not been a surprise to him. The Emperor was completely in concert with the dark side of the Force. He was the most powerful Sith to have ever existed."
-- Death Star, page 76. Emphasis mine.

"...Yoda could not hope to defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history."
-- The New Essential Chronology, page ??? (I don't own the book). Emphasis mine.

"Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time. As his strength grows, his plans begin to shape the course of the galaxy, and his snares await the unsuspecting."
-- The Complete Visual Dictionary, page 72.

Page 109 from the Dark Empire sourcebook:

"Palpatine has risen from the dead. The most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived had returned."

Empire's End, one of the Ancient Sith spirits on korriban: "He gave up everything to the Dark Side long ago. He has become the greatest who ever lived. He is the strongest who ever lived....I say we give what he wishes."

Star Wars Insider, Kevin J. Anderson, upon asked if he ever intended his Sith to be stronger than the OT sith: "No. Exar Kun, Naga Sadow and the others are on a firmly lower tier than Emperor Palpatine."
On TFN.net, official response to the strongest Sith: "Palpatine at his peak."

Essential Chronology: "the most powerful Sith who had ever lived, Emperor Palpatine had returned from the grave."

Now you know comics so you'll be well versed in people calling narrative hyperbole. Take into note these feats along with those quotes:

Palpatine learned a Force Storm. It is is an attack that rips apart the fabric of existence and space-time. It can do everything from create a wormhole to move a person lightyears to ravage the surface of a planet to annihilate starfleets. Palpatine uses Force lightning with enough power to kill 100 augmented Strormtroopers effortlessly. Same lightning reduced 3 dark siders strong enough to resurrect Darth Maul to charred skeletons.

His battle with Luke in Dark Empire, according to the audio, had enough energy sent off to kill nearby Stormtroopers. He also can drain planets of their energy.


A dying palpatine in empires end was able to blast a hole and instantly killed a jedi with lightning who tried to attack him while mortally wounding the other.



Quote: Originally Posted by Deviss View Post

When you read Revan novel and play JK storyline you get this feeling that the Sith Emperor is this terrible being of pure darkness, almost not human but monster. You don't get the same feeling with Palpatine (at least I don't feel this way about his character). Palpatine is just a ordinary person (well, you know what I mean). I am not saying that he is not a powerful sith lord who accomplished A LOT, but to me he is clearly not even half as 'terrifying' as Vitiate.
I do. Palpatines true form has been stated to be pure dark side energry, he has been stated to be a dark side nexus and even a blackhole in the force. Vitiate's prowess is far less when compared to Palpatine.

Its obvious you're another Revan era fanboy.
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MajinEddie's Avatar


MajinEddie
02.12.2012 , 09:34 PM | #83
Bugsbunny would pwn them both at the same time.

BrandonSM's Avatar


BrandonSM
02.12.2012 , 09:38 PM | #84
Quote: Originally Posted by Deviss View Post
Just two small things I noticed that I wanted to add to the whole discussion:

If Palpatine is so mighty and exceptional duelist, how come he lost to Mace Windu? Yes, I know that Windu is "one of the finest swordsman of the jedi order" and all. But still, Sidious lost. And don't tell me that he would have won without Anakin's interference because it is clearly not what movie portrays.

Also, some people say that Palpatine's 'lightning bolts' are most powerful ones in SW universe. It's one of the arguments for Palpatine's superiority over Vitiate. Well, just read what I wrote before in this thread about Sith Emperor, (information coming from OFFICIAL GAME CODEX). Could Palpatine really become godlike like Vitiate and create new galaxy from the ashes by himself? Could he wipe out entire life in the galaxy? And most important of all, was he also immortal as Vitiate? From what I know he needed to use clones in order to prelong his life (I don't know a lot about EU post EP6 tbh so I may be wrong about that ;p).

When you read Revan novel and play JK storyline you get this feeling that the Sith Emperor is this terrible being of pure darkness, almost not human but monster. You don't get the same feeling with Palpatine (at least I don't feel this way about his character). Palpatine is just a ordinary person (well, you know what I mean). I am not saying that he is not a powerful sith lord who accomplished A LOT, but to me he is clearly not even half as 'terrifying' as Vitiate.
1. Mace Windu is 2nd to Luke in terms of dueling In my Honest Opinion. Plus, if you actually did watch the movie, Mace was struggling to hold on to his lightsaber. And in the RoTS novelization, it states Sidious was bending Mace's lightsaber with his lightning. It also states Mace was dead before flying out the Window.

2. Vitate never wiped out the or a galaxy, it was his goal. And he fails, you kill him. His immortality goes downhill.

3. Sidious had a power to hide his presence in the Force. And when he did unveil it, it caused Glaen Marek to nearly be engulfed into complete darkness. And it was causing Luke's emotions to be amplified, thats why he went in and freaked out on Vader. That was just caused by being the presence of Sidious.
Hapan: "This creature has information that could lead us to a woman who has been kidnapped. We will get that information."
Luke: "This woman is a citizen of the New Republic, and if you do not take your hands off her, I will take your hands off you."

Deviss's Avatar


Deviss
02.13.2012 , 02:45 PM | #85
@Makoto_Shishio I don't think they are hyperbols. I mean, while those things never actually happened, Vitiate had potential to perform them and was in fact very close in doing so if it weren't for the invervention of JK (aka player himself ;p).
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Castiel's Avatar


Castiel
02.13.2012 , 03:20 PM | #86
Quote: Originally Posted by Makoto_Shishio View Post
For many reasons.

1.) Mace windu is one of the greatest lightsaber duelists ever.
2.) Sidious as of ROTS has been 13 years out of practise with a lightsaber and yet he still managed to kill off "3 of the greatest swordsman of the jedi order" in a swift stroke
3.) He could have overpowered Windu with the force easily but chose to not go all out to manipulate Anakin.

Obviously you never read Dark empire.

Let me begin by telling you those statements are merely hyperboles, its the same as exar kun being stated that "every foot steps he makes, the earth trembles beneth his feat" or like Revan being described to be the "heart of the force".

That and the fact that Vitate needed rituals and trinkets which takes time to accomplish most of his feats. Palpatines power all comes from within himself.

1) Palpatine can create hyperspace wormholes(force storms) from his own power that are powerful enough to destroy an entire planets surface and wipe out an [b]entire star fleet[b] killing tens and thousands of soldiers.
2) His very existance caused an imbalance of the force.
3) His lightning killing off 50 storm troopers in one single blast and reducing 3 sith acolytes powerful enough to being maul back from he dead to charred ashes.
4) Force blinding 10 000 jedi
5) His mere presence on byss turning "one of the most lush and fertile planets" into "one of the galaxys most powerful dark side nexus".
6) Constantly draining billions of people on byss while keeping them alive
7) Being respected and being bowed to from the ancient sith


"The Ancient Sith pown new age Sith" don't believe it. It's totally crap and baseless. Naga Sadow, one of the most infamous Ancient Sith, did really nothing except throw a brick with The Force. The accounts of him blowing up stars is clearly stated to be done through his Flagship's technology. This tech could be used by even weaklings lin the Force.

The most powerful Sith Lord EVER is a new age Sith. The Sith is known as Emperor Palpatine/Darth Sidious. Sources to back this up:


"The Rebels were turning out to be more troublesome than many had expected. The Emperor had known it would be thus, of course; the resistance had not been a surprise to him. The Emperor was completely in concert with the dark side of the Force. He was the most powerful Sith to have ever existed."
-- Death Star, page 76. Emphasis mine.

"...Yoda could not hope to defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history."
-- The New Essential Chronology, page ??? (I don't own the book). Emphasis mine.

"Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time. As his strength grows, his plans begin to shape the course of the galaxy, and his snares await the unsuspecting."
-- The Complete Visual Dictionary, page 72.

Page 109 from the Dark Empire sourcebook:

"Palpatine has risen from the dead. The most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived had returned."

Empire's End, one of the Ancient Sith spirits on korriban: "He gave up everything to the Dark Side long ago. He has become the greatest who ever lived. He is the strongest who ever lived....I say we give what he wishes."

Star Wars Insider, Kevin J. Anderson, upon asked if he ever intended his Sith to be stronger than the OT sith: "No. Exar Kun, Naga Sadow and the others are on a firmly lower tier than Emperor Palpatine."
On TFN.net, official response to the strongest Sith: "Palpatine at his peak."

Essential Chronology: "the most powerful Sith who had ever lived, Emperor Palpatine had returned from the grave."

Now you know comics so you'll be well versed in people calling narrative hyperbole. Take into note these feats along with those quotes:

Palpatine learned a Force Storm. It is is an attack that rips apart the fabric of existence and space-time. It can do everything from create a wormhole to move a person lightyears to ravage the surface of a planet to annihilate starfleets. Palpatine uses Force lightning with enough power to kill 100 augmented Strormtroopers effortlessly. Same lightning reduced 3 dark siders strong enough to resurrect Darth Maul to charred skeletons.

His battle with Luke in Dark Empire, according to the audio, had enough energy sent off to kill nearby Stormtroopers. He also can drain planets of their energy.


A dying palpatine in empires end was able to blast a hole and instantly killed a jedi with lightning who tried to attack him while mortally wounding the other.





I do. Palpatines true form has been stated to be pure dark side energry, he has been stated to be a dark side nexus and even a blackhole in the force. Vitiate's prowess is far less when compared to Palpatine.

Its obvious you're another Revan era fanboy.
No he didn't. George Lucas states that the final 3 movies ends everything we saw. That means Sidious, Luke, Leia, Han ETC. Luke doesn't get married, Sidious doesn't have clones, he and Vader just dies. So your arguments are faulty and open for interpretation for the open minded. Again, means non-canon no matter what you say. GL Has the final word.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
02.13.2012 , 03:33 PM | #87
Quote: Originally Posted by Castiel View Post
No he didn't. George Lucas states that the final 3 movies ends everything we saw. That means Sidious, Luke, Leia, Han ETC. Luke doesn't get married, Sidious doesn't have clones, he and Vader just dies. So your arguments are faulty and open for interpretation for the open minded. Again, means non-canon no matter what you say. GL Has the final word.
So what about the material between all and of the movies? Those don't count either? Cause a few of those, also do say Sidious is the most powerful sith ever.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

BrandonSM's Avatar


BrandonSM
02.13.2012 , 03:57 PM | #88
Quote: Originally Posted by Castiel View Post
No he didn't. George Lucas states that the final 3 movies ends everything we saw. That means Sidious, Luke, Leia, Han ETC. Luke doesn't get married, Sidious doesn't have clones, he and Vader just dies. So your arguments are faulty and open for interpretation for the open minded. Again, means non-canon no matter what you say. GL Has the final word.
No. He states there is no EU. Which means, Revan and any character doesn't exist.
Hapan: "This creature has information that could lead us to a woman who has been kidnapped. We will get that information."
Luke: "This woman is a citizen of the New Republic, and if you do not take your hands off her, I will take your hands off you."

Castiel's Avatar


Castiel
02.13.2012 , 03:59 PM | #89
Quote: Originally Posted by BrandonSM View Post
No. He states there is no EU. Which means, Revan and any character doesn't exist.
Wich also means ROTJ was the de facto END of star wars, sidious, vader...

BrandonSM's Avatar


BrandonSM
02.13.2012 , 05:42 PM | #90
Quote: Originally Posted by Castiel View Post
Wich also means ROTJ was the de facto END of star wars, sidious, vader...
No. Sidious and Vader are movie characters, and Sidious is still the most powerful Sith Lord.
Hapan: "This creature has information that could lead us to a woman who has been kidnapped. We will get that information."
Luke: "This woman is a citizen of the New Republic, and if you do not take your hands off her, I will take your hands off you."