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Sith Emperor vs Darth Sidious


Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
10.11.2013 , 07:37 AM | #621
Quote: Originally Posted by DrowNoble View Post
I think we are not syncing our discussion well. I'll put it another way.

Drop them in a 2v2 arena, Sidious loses against either one, some Lightning isn't going to cut it against skilled Force users as shown when Mace Windu nearly beat Sidious, only failing due to Anakin's interference. Revan would give the Emperor a good fight and might pull out the win. The Emperor has immense dark side power, but Revan was able to draw upon both Light and Dark, something that could make a difference.

Now if it was they will fight at some point in the future, then Sidious would probably come out on top followed by Revan and the Emperor. Sidious is very patient, putting plans in motion that won't bear fruit for decades if need be. He has no qualms spending money, killing people or starting revolts (separatist movement) to achieve his goals. Sidious would arrange for the Emperor's Voice to be killed at one place, only to have himself in place to confront the temporarily weakened Emperor.

The Emperor himself doesn't seem to be any great strategist, more of a "bulldoze ahead with raw power" kind of guy. He's immortal so if you're causing him grief and he can't just outright kill you, he'll just wait til you die of old age and continue. As we saw in the Knight storyline, confronting him face-to-face is not a good idea, even Revan succumed the first time (tho he resisted the 2nd).
What are you suggesting here? Who are these 2v2?

If your suggesting that Sidious would lose a fight against Revan then you are very much mistaken. This "some lightining" you are referring would have killed Mace Windu but he chose to stop to make himself look weak before Anakin. To quote the Revenge of the Sith novel:

Lightning blasted the clouds above, and lightning blasted from Palpatine's hands, and Mace didn't have time to comprehend what Palpatine was talking about; he had time only to slip back into Vaapad and angle his blade to catch the forking arcs of pure, dazzling hatred that clawed toward him. Because Vaapad is more than a fighting style. It is a state of mind: a channel for darkness. Power passed into him and out again without touching him. And the circuit completed itself: the lightning reflected back to its source.

Palpatine still made no move to defend himself from Skywalker; instead he ramped up the lightning bursting from his hands, bending the fountain of Mace's blade back toward the Korun Master's face.

Mace's blade bent so close to his face that he was choking on ozone. "Anakin, he's too strong for meó"
This was beyond Vaapad; he had no strength left to fight against his own blade.


Exactly what does Revan have against that? He certainly doesn't have Vaapad and the Sith Emperor's lightning alone would stop him in his tracks. There is simply no possibility that he wouldn't get overwhelmed here.

And even then, Sidious is a grossly superior lightsaber duelists and battle tactician, he's also far faster and far stronger, Revan won't be able to keep up with him. Simply put Revan would go down very very quickly.

You need to reassess Revan's abilities, he lost against the Sith Emperor - he couldn't even get close to him before he was killed. So why are you suggesting that he could win all of a sudden? Revan simply isn't strong enough to hold of the Sith Emperor's power, nor is he strong enough to hold of Sidious'.

They are out of his league, way way out of his league, this comparison shouldn't even been happening.

Again you need to reassess your viewpoints on these characters abilities. I'd suggest you read this thread for Sidious abilities, if you have not already, and this thread for some information on the Sith Emperor.

SteveWestfall's Avatar


SteveWestfall
12.05.2013 , 10:05 PM | #622
I've been reading about this recently and I am not convinced one way or another.

Yes, Palpatine could feed off an entire planet. He could create Force Storms. He destroyed the Jedi Order. He could create new abilites. But there are some things to consider in the Sith Emperor's favor.

The Emperor completely consumed all life from a planet. To the point where, if a force user even traveled to the planet, eventually they would be consumed. And in order to make it work, he dominated the minds of I believe it was 6,000 full Dark Lords. Someone mentioned earlier that because of the Rule of Two, the next Sith Lord would be more powerful than his master. After continuing for centuries, you end up with a very powerful Sith Lord. True.

But consider. Under the Rule of Two, they didn't have to worry about other Sith butting in. And they were hiding most of the time. They built their power in secret. In the Old Republic, EVERY Sith was trying to gain ultimate power. There was intense fighting to be the most powerful. Those were the types of Sith the Emperor took control of. Not just took control of, but eventually totally destroyed them.

Another person mentioned how Palpatine could transfer his essence from one body to another. Very true. And it was a very difficult and dangerous process to undertake. But he only jumped one body at a time. The Emperor, if I remember correctly, had both his Voice (which was essentially the Emperor himself in a body other than his original) and he had his Children. I don't remember if there was a number as to how many of his Children there were but they were also body's controlled directly by the Emperor. No free will of their own. So while Palpatine could feed off of billions, he could only directly control one body at a time. The Emperor could control an as yet unknown number of bodies as if they were his own all at the same time. And there is nothing to say that if he wished, the Emperor could also have fed off of billions. The reason why I don't believe he did is because he wasn't interested in simply feeding off of them. His goal was to totally consume them. For that, he did not have the power to do so. Which is why he began to take control of so many bodies so that he could perform the same ritual only on a much larger scale.

I hope you find this to be an interesting post. I am in no way diminishing how powerful Palpatine is. Just thought I would point out it may not be as much of a one sided battle as some have said it would be.

As a final tally, I believe that if it was a lightsaber duel, Palpatine would win. But if a Force Battle, I think my vote would go to the Sith Emperor. Because while Palpatine has incredible power, I think there would be a very good chance that the Sith Emperor could simply destroy Palpatine's mind. Palpatine could hide in plain sight because of his power, but the Emperor, for at least a brief period, dominated the minds of not one or two, but three Jedi Masters serving on the Council along with a powerful Jedi Knight.

(What would be really cool is if sometime after his 'death', the Sith Emperor simply took on a new life and Emperor Palpatine was actually the Sith Emperor....)

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
12.05.2013 , 10:18 PM | #623
Added Chapter 31 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
12.06.2013 , 07:47 AM | #624
This debate exhausted itself a long time ago, see here for the solution.

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fdbgjfdhjgkjdhsg
12.07.2013 , 01:48 PM | #625
I would have to go with the sith emperor considering the fact that he was able to deceive the entire galatic republic and jedi order through deceptions and misdirection for a couple thousand years, far longer than Palpatine did. Plus the sith emperor was able to kill every jedi and the most powerful sith all at once just through meditating and was able to make unlimited replicas of himself.
Speak softly, and carry a big blaster.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
12.07.2013 , 01:58 PM | #626
Can we just let this go already?
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

LadyKulvax's Avatar


LadyKulvax
12.07.2013 , 05:02 PM | #627
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
Can we just let this go already?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQG6WfO8soU
Kote! Kandosii sa ka'rta, Vode an.
Battle Honour

xxwolfbloodxx's Avatar


xxwolfbloodxx
12.09.2013 , 02:22 AM | #628
I thinks it's clear that if you consider post ROTJ EU that Sidious is more powerful. But if you throw out the post ROTJ eu the Sith emperor is more powerful. Disney already said that the post ROTJ EU is no longer cannon so i think that pretty much makes the Sith emperor the more powerful of the two.

RaptorClown's Avatar


RaptorClown
12.09.2013 , 03:20 AM | #629
Sid had weaker oposition tbh, their goals were kinda diffrent as well. Vader himself probably would outmatch Sid if he wasnt crippled and broken. And can you imagine emperor dying Sid's way? LOL, like most pathetic deaths of all times
pew pew meesa liking youssa

StarMagus's Avatar


StarMagus
12.09.2013 , 12:25 PM | #630
Keep in mind that this...

Quote:
Lightning blasted the clouds above, and lightning blasted from Palpatine's hands, and Mace didn't have time to comprehend what Palpatine was talking about; he had time only to slip back into Vaapad and angle his blade to catch the forking arcs of pure, dazzling hatred that clawed toward him. Because Vaapad is more than a fighting style. It is a state of mind: a channel for darkness. Power passed into him and out again without touching him. And the circuit completed itself: the lightning reflected back to its source.

Palpatine still made no move to defend himself from Skywalker; instead he ramped up the lightning bursting from his hands, bending the fountain of Mace's blade back toward the Korun Master's face.

Mace's blade bent so close to his face that he was choking on ozone. "Anakin, he's too strong for meó"
This was beyond Vaapad; he had no strength left to fight against his own blade.
Does not match this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBLcxXR1PMw

Also note Anakin doesn't show up until after Mace Kicks Palpatine's butt in a light saber combat. So there is no point that Anakin could have been watching the entire thing and noting how fast they were moving.

Also at no point does anybody utter "Anakin, he's too strong for meó"

It's like the person who wrote the book couldn't even be half bothered to watch the movie.