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Sith Emperor vs Darth Sidious


Kaedusz's Avatar


Kaedusz
10.05.2013 , 04:39 AM | #521
It's actually quite strange you would dig this up ,because i have stated many times that if Vitiate is the most powerful ,Sidious is second.Which means Revan is not more powerful than Sidious.I am pretty sure you have seen these posts.
Which means by now you should haven known i don't think Revan is more powerful than Sidious,which makes the purpose of quotation of that old post interesting.A straw maybe?
Sorry of the tautology.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
10.05.2013 , 04:54 AM | #522
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaedusz View Post
It's actually quite strange you would dig this up ,because i have stated many times that if Vitiate is the most powerful ,Sidious is second.Which means Revan is not more powerful than Sidious.I am pretty sure you have seen these posts.
Which means by now you should haven known i don't think Revan is more powerful than Sidious,which makes the purpose of quotation of that old post interesting.

Sorry of the tautology.
Regardless of your current opinions, the post still clearly demonstrates that you are incredibly biased in regards to this topic, nobody claiming to be partisan in regards to Sidious would ever even consider those kinds of opinions. I can accept that your opinions have changed, but that mindset ain't going anywhere.

P.S Tautology is saying the same thing twice... likes apples are apples.

DrowNoble's Avatar


DrowNoble
10.05.2013 , 04:56 AM | #523
If we are talking just raw power, the Emperor is more powerful than Sidious by far. The Emperor drained the Force from an entire planet using a Sith ritual, every humanoid, animal, plant and bacteria. This gave him immense raw power, so much that he can fully possess almost anyone to be his Voice. The Voice is essentially him, but if you kill the host the Emperor just recovers for a short period and selects a new Voice.

Also have to remember his Children too, they have a bit more free will, but the Emperor can take control when he wants. Of course his hold isn't as strong as his Voice, as shown by Kira's resistance to him during the Knight storyline.

However, Sidious is patient and a master of schemes, so if he knew he was going to have to deal with the Emperor (assuming they lived at same time), he'd make plans years in advance to give him the best possible advantage when the confrontation occurred. Most likely finding where the actual Emperor is, getting his Voice killed and then confronting him.

Now throwing Revan into this mix....

In the KOTOR game and the Revan novel, he was much more powerful that he is portrayed in SWTOR. Of course, one could argue that Revan was weakened from 300 yrs of captivity, he was constantly fighting the mental assault of the Emperor. This would explain why some mid-range imperials are able to take him down so easily. If we assume the Revan before his capture, he has mastered both dark & light abilities which would give him a huge advantage over Sidious or the Emperor. He was a master strategist, able to defeat the mandalorians, so he would be a match for Sidious' cunning. In the novel (minor spoilers inc), Revan probably would have succeeded in killing the Emperor had Lord Scourge not betrayed him by backstabbing the Exile and turning on Revan.

Kaedusz's Avatar


Kaedusz
10.05.2013 , 05:06 AM | #524
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Regardless of your current opinions, the post still clearly demonstrates that you are incredibly biased in regards to this topic, nobody claiming to be partisan in regards to Sidious would ever even consider those kinds of opinions. I can accept that your opinions have changed, but that mindset ain't going anywhere.
P.S Tautology is saying the same thing twice... likes apples are apples.
You should have read the post you quoted yourself.My ex extreme opinion is a result my annoyance of post ep 6 stuff used as evidence.I am partisan towards these sources.The opinion regarding pre ep 6 is just not acknowledging the full extent of his power.
A particular mindset is at work when looking at post ep 6,but before 6 there isn't.In another words i am biased when post ep 6 gets thrown in the mix.
PS.It's more than that.

Anyway.... i am getting bored of this thing.So i am gonna do what you suggested in that other thread,unless forced back.Cya later.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
10.05.2013 , 05:07 AM | #525
Quote: Originally Posted by DrowNoble View Post
If we are talking just raw power, the Emperor is more powerful than Sidious by far. The Emperor drained the Force from an entire planet using a Sith ritual, every humanoid, animal, plant and bacteria. This gave him immense raw power, so much that he can fully possess almost anyone to be his Voice. The Voice is essentially him, but if you kill the host the Emperor just recovers for a short period and selects a new Voice.

Also have to remember his Children too, they have a bit more free will, but the Emperor can take control when he wants. Of course his hold isn't as strong as his Voice, as shown by Kira's resistance to him during the Knight storyline.

However, Sidious is patient and a master of schemes, so if he knew he was going to have to deal with the Emperor (assuming they lived at same time), he'd make plans years in advance to give him the best possible advantage when the confrontation occurred. Most likely finding where the actual Emperor is, getting his Voice killed and then confronting him.

Now throwing Revan into this mix....

In the KOTOR game and the Revan novel, he was much more powerful that he is portrayed in SWTOR. Of course, one could argue that Revan was weakened from 300 yrs of captivity, he was constantly fighting the mental assault of the Emperor. This would explain why some mid-range imperials are able to take him down so easily. If we assume the Revan before his capture, he has mastered both dark & light abilities which would give him a huge advantage over Sidious or the Emperor. He was a master strategist, able to defeat the mandalorians, so he would be a match for Sidious' cunning. In the novel (minor spoilers inc), Revan probably would have succeeded in killing the Emperor had Lord Scourge not betrayed him by backstabbing the Exile and turning on Revan.
I'm afraid this is not the case, I suggest you refer yourself to this thread. In particular, you might find the fact that upon death the Emperor is capable of possessing any Force user in the vicinity and anyone of his dark disciples across the galaxy. He has experienced a total of four deaths, and was only truly defeated with his fourth and final death when the combined will of every deceased Jedi in the Netherworld held him down.

And I'm not sure what Revan has to do with this... however against both Sidious and the Emperor he would and has been handedly defeat. His mastery over the Force is minuscule compared to there's. He also failed to achieve complete mastery over both aspects. He could perform some high level light side powers, and wield Sith Lightning and had knowledge of a few other powers. Its a assumption that having access to both fields gives him any kind of advantage against his enemies - it doesn't.

Kaedusz's Avatar


Kaedusz
10.06.2013 , 02:14 AM | #526
* * *
Displays of power or as you call it ''feats'' is not the only thing that have weight.That's why i mentioned the Son before.
Some measurements of power are understood and agreed upon by default because of the nature of what something or someone is.
I don't need to see the Son performing the spell called Dark side tendrils,besides the fact i can't think of any legitimate use of it besides Darth Zannah,but i still know he is more powerful than her.

That's where Vitiate's strength is in regards to such discussions.And he is not a Sith in the normal way the word is understood anyway.Sidious is still the most powerful Sith Lord ever.Vitiate is not a Sith.He doesn't care about the Sith paradigm,it's code,it's goals or any kind of philosophy whatsoever.I wouldn't even use ''he'',i would use ''it'',because it's not a usual mortal being,even from his birth.

Vitiate -wanting to suck and annihilate all life on purpose (not by default because of Nihilus's nature) is the ultimate evil,which has nothing to do with the Sith Order.

Can Sidious defeat Vitiate in combat?Absolutely yes.SW history has proven that more power on paper is not a guarantee of success.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
10.06.2013 , 05:15 AM | #527
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaedusz View Post
* * *
Displays of power or as you call it ''feats'' is not the only thing that have weight.That's why i mentioned the Son before.
Some measurements of power are understood and agreed upon by default because of the nature of what something or someone is.
I don't need to see the Son performing the spell called Dark side tendrils,besides the fact i can't think of any legitimate use of it besides Darth Zannah,but i still know he is more powerful than her.

That's where Vitiate's strength is in regards to such discussions.And he is not a Sith in the normal way the word is understood anyway.Sidious is still the most powerful Sith Lord ever.Vitiate is not a Sith.He doesn't care about the Sith paradigm,it's code,it's goals or any kind of philosophy whatsoever.I wouldn't even use ''he'',i would use ''it'',because it's not a usual mortal being,even from his birth.

Vitiate -wanting to suck and annihilate all life on purpose (not by default because of Nihilus's nature) is the ultimate evil,which has nothing to do with the Sith Order.

Can Sidious defeat Vitiate in combat?Absolutely yes.SW history has proven that more power on paper is not a guarantee of success.
Sith is a title, nothing more. People put too much emphasis on the fact that the Sith Emperor is not a Sith and therefore for some reason exempt from the standard laws of Force power. He is not.

I don't care if the Sith Emperor is the Prince of Persia he uses the dark side of the Force in the same manner as any other Force User and he is not a Celestial. The Son, Daughter and Father are living manifestations of the Force, the Sith Emperor (or Sidious) do not compare. There are no similarities that can be drawn between them.

Nor does philosophy have any bearing on Force Power, again he could be a Unicorn Preist and it wouldn't make him any more or less powerful. In the end "feats" - as everyone calls them - are what demonstrate power, and the Sith Emperor does not have a lack of feats. If he truly was as powerful as you suggest he would have surpassed Sidious is his usage of the Force, but he does not. So the only logical conclusion is to assume he is not as powerful.

Why else would he not be capable of such things? You could attribute it to the Sith Emperor not having the time to display his abilities but my analysis specifically highlights the deficiencies of his power, there are many situations in which the Sith Emperor simply hasn't been capable of performing something, while Sidious has been. This can be said of foresight, telekinesis, Force lightning, mind control, Force drain and essence transfer.

And for the record, if you actually read the analysis you would know that Sidious has been touted as the most powerful user of the dark side as well - so essentially you are contradicting canon here also.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.06.2013 , 09:00 AM | #528
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
I don't care if the Sith Emperor is the Prince of Persia he uses the dark side of the Force in the same manner as any other Force User and he is not a Celestial. The Son, Daughter and Father are living manifestations of the Force, the Sith Emperor (or Sidious) do not compare. There are no similarities that can be drawn between them.
Interestingly (and off-topic as well) Xendor doesn't believe the Celestials to be indicative of the true reality of the Force.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
10.06.2013 , 09:28 AM | #529
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Sith is a title, nothing more. People put too much emphasis on the fact that the Sith Emperor is not a Sith and therefore for some reason exempt from the standard laws of Force power. He is not.

I don't care if the Sith Emperor is the Prince of Persia he uses the dark side of the Force in the same manner as any other Force User and he is not a Celestial. The Son, Daughter and Father are living manifestations of the Force, the Sith Emperor (or Sidious) do not compare. There are no similarities that can be drawn between them.

Nor does philosophy have any bearing on Force Power, again he could be a Unicorn Preist and it wouldn't make him any more or less powerful. In the end "feats" - as everyone calls them - are what demonstrate power, and the Sith Emperor does not have a lack of feats. If he truly was as powerful as you suggest he would have surpassed Sidious is his usage of the Force, but he does not. So the only logical conclusion is to assume he is not as powerful.

Why else would he not be capable of such things? You could attribute it to the Sith Emperor not having the time to display his abilities but my analysis specifically highlights the deficiencies of his power, there are many situations in which the Sith Emperor simply hasn't been capable of performing something, while Sidious has been. This can be said of foresight, telekinesis, Force lightning, mind control, Force drain and essence transfer.

And for the record, if you actually read the analysis you would know that Sidious has been touted as the most powerful user of the dark side as well - so essentially you are contradicting canon here also.
The Sith emperor is a Sith its in his title, all other "force entities" do not have such a title under their name.

Selenial's Avatar


Selenial
10.06.2013 , 09:53 AM | #530
Quote: Originally Posted by tunewalker View Post
The Sith emperor is a Sith its in his title, all other "force entities" do not have such a title under their name.
The point is he's not a Sith in belief, he's a maniacal monster who wants to destroy all life in the Galaxy, and then give up on the force...
We all live or die as Krayt wills, Stryfe. At his word, I would cut out my own heart. Or yours.
CelÚna Mercenary Cathinka Seeliara Sage