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Sith Emperor vs Darth Sidious


Daxy's Avatar


Daxy
02.22.2013 , 10:36 AM | #411
Quote: Originally Posted by jovianus View Post
This is frankly why I'm not too fond of a lot of the EU, including parts of the games.

In the movies the Jedi/Sith use the Force to boost their physical abilities, gain some limited insight into the future, subtly manipulate others, and a bit of telekinesis and lightning for cool factor.

In the EU, depending on the day of the week and the weather Force users are planet ravaging demigods who play pinball with Super Star Destroyers.

I remember thinking that in KotOR 2, Darth Nihilous wiped out an entire planet of force users, including a conclave of Jedi Masters, all of whom were utterly helpless to do anything about it, and was threatening to consume all life in the galaxy. So I walk onto his ship and punch him to death, galactic crisis averted. I guess his galaxy threatening life consuming powers don't function on Wednesdays.

Similar to Palpatine apparently suffering from the same problems as a turtle, on his feet he can tear Star Destroyers out of the sky and bury them in the planetary crust. Put him on his back, and all he can do is flail his skinny little legs and sporadically throw some force lightning.

excellent

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
02.22.2013 , 11:34 AM | #412
Ok time to end this....also Jovianus even before the EU, The Force was described as all powerful so I don't see why Force Sensitives wouldn't be able to do the things they do in the EU.

Quote:
Vader imagined the power that could be his if he crushed Palpatine and established his own rule over the Empire. But first, he would need his own apprentice. By himself, he could not hope to defeat the most powerful Sith Lord the galaxy had ever known.

--Taken from Vader: The Ultimate Guide
Quote:
Yoda went after Palpatine in the empty Senate chamber, but could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history.

--Taken from The New Essential Chronology
Quote:
Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time. As his strength grows, his plans begin to shape the course of the galaxy, and his snares await the unsuspecting.

--Taken from The Complete Visual Dictionary
Quote:
When Yoda crosses sabers with the movie's arch-villain, he doesn't launch into a pinwheeling display of acrobatics, as he did against Count Dooku in Episode II. Instead, Yoda faces the dark side's fury, channeled by the most powerful Sith Lord in history. "Rob Coleman wanted Yoda to feel the power of his enemy," says Wheless, "like a force he's never dealt with before."

--Taken from Insider #86: Yoda's Right Arm
Quote:
The Sith have waited millennium for the birth of one who is powerful enough to return them from hiding. Darth Sidious is that one—the Sith's revenge on the Jedi order for having nearly eradicated the practitioners of the dark side of the Force.

--Taken from The Complete Visual Dictionary
Quote:
The Sith Order, in hiding for a millennium, had awaited the birth of one who was powerful enough to return the Order to prominence. Darth Sidious was the fulfillment of that prophecy, capable of exacting the Sith's revenge on the Jedi for having nearly eradicated the practitioners of the dark side of the Force.

--Taken from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia
Quote:
Darth Sidious proved to be the grim culmination of a thousand years of Sith philosophy and teachings.

--Taken from Jedi vs Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force
Quote:
When the Sith finally emerged from a thousand years of watching and waiting, they numbered—in accordance with the tradition set down by Darth Bane—only two. The most powerful of these was Darth Sidious, an ice-cold, diabolically calculating genius equipped with the strength of the dark side of the Force, as well as an enormous wealth of Sith artifacts, equipment, and knowledge.

--Taken from The Dark Side Sourcebook
Quote:
It quickly became clear to Luke that this decrepit and seemingly defenseless old man was masterfully adept in the ways of the Dark Side of the Force. Indeed, as Vader had warned, the Emperor had become the Dark Side's most powerful expression.

--Taken from the Dark Empire endnotes
Quote:
Even Ulic Qel-Droma would be envious of Palpatine. He had succeeded where all others had failed in taming the Dark Side.

--Taken from Dark Empire Sourcebook
Quote:
Palpatine knew precisely why the Empire couldn’t last without his dread power: he had designed it that way. No one ever suspected how much he relied on the Dark Side of the Force. He shaped those of his government by using the Force against them. He used it to control his fleets and to drive his soldiers on to victory. He used it to destroy his enemies from a distance and learn of conspiracies against him. Without it, there was no way the Empire could endure, as he had designed it. The Dark Side flowed through him like some primordial ichor and was the key to all his power.
Soon he was ready to strike. Fully healed and in greater control of the Dark Side than ever, he finally acted to end the Mutiny.

--Taken from Dark Empire Sourcebook
Quote:
The feeling had begun as a faint stirring in the Force, like the tiniest ripple of something moving slowly through deep water, far away but drawing steadily closer. It intensified, until it felt like the Force itself was roiling, heaving like the sea in the grip of an enormous storm.
“I sense a presence,” Maul warned Savage. “A presence I haven’t felt since...”
And then Maul knew.
“Master,” he said, leaning forward on the throne.
The commandos guarding the royal chamber reached for their throats. As Maul watched, an unseen forced lifted them high in the air, then slammed them to the floor, where they lay motionless in their red-and-black armor. The doors opened, then closed behind a figure in dark robes. A deep cowl hid most of the face, leaving only a pale chin and a downturned mouth visible. To most eyes the man in those simple robes of rough cloth was unremarkable, just another being making his way in the universe. But to those who could feel the Force he was anything but ordinary. To them, he was a dark sun blazing with power that was simultaneously hypnotizing and terrifying to behold.
Darth Sidious, the reigning Dark Lord of the Sith, had come to Mandalore.
Savage stared at the new arrival in astonishment, transfixed by the sight.

--Taken from Darth Maul: Shadow Conspiracy
Quote:
Now the scene below subtly altered, though to the physical eye there was no change. Powered by the dark side, Dooku's perception took the measure of those below him with exhilarating precision.
Kenobi was luminous, a transparent being, a window onto a sunlit meadow of the Force.
Skywalker was a storm cloud, flickering with dangerous lightning, building the rotation that threatens a tornado.
And then there was Palpatine, of course: he was beyond power. He showed nothing of what might be within. Though seen with the eyes of the dark side itself, Palpatine was an event horizon. Beneath his entirely ordinary surface was absolute, perfect nothingness. Darkness beyond darkness.
A black hole of the Force.

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith
Quote:
The key to Luke's turning is the moment when he and Leia realize the Emperor is no longer defined by his physical form, but has become a chaotic nexus of dark energies that swell and burst open the fabric of space, tearing apart everything in the vicinity, human and machine.

--Taken from the Dark Empire endnotes
Quote:
Palpatine has spent decades studying the most arcane and esoteric Jedi disciplines. It is believed that he has mastered nearly all the known powers, previously unknown powers, and devises new ones at his pleasure.

--Taken from Dark Empire Sourcebook
Quote:
"The churning energy mass of a Force Storm can consume everything it touches, for at its eye is pure hate. Just as a black hole devours a star, this storm can swallow armies and fold space."

--Taken from Book of Sith: Secrets from the Dark Side
Quote:
"The Force Storm is truly an awe-inspiring demonstration of pure natural energy. After using the Force to open a hyperspace wormhole, tremendous shockwaves will ripple through the fabric of space. Due to the Force Storm's potential for abuse, the Council has recently classified it as a dark side power."

"The Reborn Emperor used this at Da Soocha. It has the power to kill worlds."
—Luke

--Taken from The Jedi Path: A Manual for Students of the Force
Quote:
Vast energy storms that connect wildly disparate spots across the galaxy, hyperspace wormholes are unpredictable and devastating. It was to the Rebel Alliance's detriment that Emperor Palpatine was able to not only control these storms, but to create them.

--Taken from Handbook Volume Three: Dark Empire
Quote:
Palpatine's body was destroyed. Separated from his clones, Palpatine was forced to survive in the maddening, bodiless existence of the void. Through sheer will he retained his identity, crossing the gulf of space to again take up residence in his clone body.

--Taken from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia
=======

Reducing a Sithspawn to ashes, by giving off enough Force Lighting.

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http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...ture__121_.jpg
========
Burns 3 dark side prophets to the bone with a single gout of Force Lighting

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...ture__103_.jpg

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======

Generates enough Force Lighting to kill an entire legion(which an Imperial Legion is 8,192 troops) with accuracy to not harm the Royal Guards in the area.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...cture__95_.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...cture__96_.jpg
=======

Quote:
Lightning blasted the clouds above, and lightning blasted from Palpatine's hands, and Mace didn't have time to comprehend what Palpatine was talking about; he had time only to slip back into Vaapad and angle his blade to catch the forking arcs of pure, dazzling hatred that clawed toward him. Because Vaapad is more than a fighting style. It is a state of mind: a channel for darkness. Power passed into him and out again without touching him. And the circuit completed itself: the lightning reflected back to its source.

Palpatine still made no move to defend himself from Skywalker; instead he ramped up the lightning bursting from his hands, bending the fountain of Mace's blade back toward the Korun Master's face.

Mace's blade bent so close to his face that he was choking on ozone. "Anakin, he's too strong for me—"

This was beyond Vaapad; he had no strength left to fight against his own blade.

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith
Quote:
Sidious shifted like a liquid shadow, maneuvering around his apprentice. Maul was suddenly up against the wall, gasping for breath as his vision blurred. His strength was evaporating. He turned fast to see Sidious. Sidious lashed out with his lightsaber. Maul parried the blow, but then his lightsaber suddenly flew from his hand. As Maul heard his lightsaber deactivete and clatter across the cave's floor, Sidious raised his own lightsaber and advanced.

--Taken from The Wrath of Darth Maul
======

Palpatine gains subtle control over Luke's mind, nearly compelling him to turn to the Dark Side.

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======

Quote:
Could this Palpatine, with Plagueis’s help, be the one to bring about such a transformation?
Again he tried to see deeper into Palpatine, but without success. The psychic walls the youth had raised were impenetrable, which made the young human something rare indeed. Had Palpatine somehow learned to corral the Force within himself, as Plagueis had concealed his own powers as a youth?

Quote:
"Already, I have perfected the Force maelstrom, which creates an invulnerable energy sphere to block incoming attacks while bombarding enemies with debris and electrifying them with bolts of lightning."

--Taken from Book of Sith: Secrets from the Dark Side
=====

A show of Force Combustion, causing Leia's lightsaber to explode.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...cture__23_.jpg
=====

Quote:
In the inner recesses of his private office, the Jedi confronted the Chancellor. Palpatine produced a lightsaber hidden in his sleeve and let the dark side flow through him. It granted him unnatural dexterity and speed—enough to quickly kill three Jedi Masters and force the mighty Mace Windu back.

--Taken from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia
Quote:
Before Mace realizes what has happened, Kolar, Tiin, and Fisto have fallen to Sidious's blade.

--Taken from The Complete Visual Dictionary
=======

Disarms Luke quickly.

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Quote:
"Pertaining to whether Sidious is right-handed or left-handed with a lightsaber, he's ambidextrous. He's just that good. Sidious' abilities are beyond anything we've experienced. It took a really long time for Nick (Gillard) to work out Sidious' fighting style, and he has a style that's constantly changing. His style is one in which you'll never get the better of him. It is ambiguous --- he'll fight less than you and draw you in; you're a sucker if you think you're going to better him. Sidious is a master of every weapon and every style."

- Gillard comments on Darth Sidious's lightsaber form.
Now do I need to continue on?
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
02.22.2013 , 12:05 PM | #413
Basically, Sidious is a Mary Sue. Being that he's the villain, it's okay though.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

Ventessel's Avatar


Ventessel
02.22.2013 , 12:22 PM | #414
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaedusz View Post
Either post your stuff from the joke of a fan fiction that is Dark Empire or don't.
Not some half arsed nonsense.
^ I like this guy, not afraid to call it like he sees it.
The Heir to ChaosAdded Chapter Sixteen-- 17 APR 2013
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” ~ George Orwell

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
02.22.2013 , 04:05 PM | #415
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
Basically, Sidious is a Mary Sue. Being that he's the villain, it's okay though.
Gary Sue. Though I dunno if he is.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

jovianus's Avatar


jovianus
02.22.2013 , 06:54 PM | #416
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
The Force was described as all powerful so I don't see why Force Sensitives wouldn't be able to do the things they do in the EU.
And stars are thermonuclear fusion reactors, the fact that we can make our own reactors doesn't mean we can create artificial suns and play pool with them.

I just don't find that tacking on a laundry list of over-the-top superpowers that come and go by act of plot makes a character more interesting or appealing.






































=======

Reducing a Sithspawn to ashes, by giving off enough Force Lighting.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...ture__119_.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...ture__120_.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...ture__121_.jpg
========
Burns 3 dark side prophets to the bone with a single gout of Force Lighting

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...ture__103_.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...ture__104_.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...ture__105_.jpg
======

Generates enough Force Lighting to kill an entire legion(which an Imperial Legion is 8,192 troops) with accuracy to not harm the Royal Guards in the area.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...cture__95_.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...cture__96_.jpg
=======




======

Palpatine gains subtle control over Luke's mind, nearly compelling him to turn to the Dark Side.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...cture__15_.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...cture__16_.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...cture__17_.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...cture__18_.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...cture__19_.jpg
======





=====

A show of Force Combustion, causing Leia's lightsaber to explode.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...cture__23_.jpg
=====




=======

Disarms Luke quickly.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...cture__30_.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...cture__31_.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...cture__32_.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...cture__33_.jpg
======



Now do I need to continue on?[/QUOTE]

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
02.23.2013 , 11:26 AM | #417
Quote: Originally Posted by jovianus View Post
And stars are thermonuclear fusion reactors, the fact that we can make our own reactors doesn't mean we can create artificial suns and play pool with them.

I just don't find that tacking on a laundry list of over-the-top superpowers that come and go by act of plot makes a character more interesting or appealing.
Well being fair Jovianus, none of those things you quoted were of anything new in Sidious's arsenal. He always had a natural affinity for Force Lighting, so it stands to reason that he would be able to do all those things with it. Though if you were also quoting the quotes, at least there is an explanation that he studied heavily and gained a ton of knowledge.

I mean it isn't like he just woke up one day, and suddenly gained all this power.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Spartanik's Avatar


Spartanik
02.23.2013 , 12:41 PM | #418
Quote:
And stars are thermonuclear fusion reactors, the fact that we can make our own reactors doesn't mean we can create artificial suns and play pool with them.

I just don't find that tacking on a laundry list of over-the-top superpowers that come and go by act of plot makes a character more interesting or appealing.
It isnt very apealing. I think everyone with good intelectual taste will see that.
I find somewhat Palpatine interesting in the movies as a character, but even then its clear he is the cliché bad guy, the actor is fantastic though.
darth vader on the other hand was the clear villan, and in the end the anti-hero. And much more intersting/ iconic then sidious was, is or will ever be.
On the EU sidious plays the role of the ultimate all powerfull vilan of any cartoon, that seems impossible to beat. It brings the possibility of an iternal strugle between good and evil, in wich the ods are always in favor of the vilan in order for the good guys achievemnts seem greater and greater. And after that they need to conjure a god like abeloth off course.
Basic cartoony stuff. Mary sue no doubt.
In my opinion you can chose to view it as you please, contrary to popular belief arround here there is no actual rules that says one must beat another considering the nature of star wars that is.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Also
Quote:
HK47: Statement: You are like a delightful random cruelty generator, master, poisoning all you touch with your presence. You are a testament to all organic meatbags everywhere.

kylewhalon's Avatar


kylewhalon
02.23.2013 , 07:41 PM | #419
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
Ok time to end this....also Jovianus even before the EU, The Force was described as all powerful so I don't see why Force Sensitives wouldn't be able to do the things they do in the EU.
Now do I need to continue on?
a couple of these quotes say he's the most powerful, but most of these dont say anything about him being the most powerful sith lord that ever lived... just things he's done or can do. so im assuming ur posting them as evidence of just how powerful he really is and letting us do the math... i also want to note that some of the quotes could be argued against, where its based on a characters perception of sidious.

Because if vader saying "By himself, he could not hope to defeat the most powerful Sith Lord the galaxy had ever known." becomes canon fact.... then so does anakin saying "I'm more powerful than the chancellor, I can over throw him". in fact vader's perception of sidious is C-canon where its from a book, and anakins perception of sidious is G-canon where it was a movie by lucas. so in that comparison, Anakin being the most powerful would prevail, being as how G-canon > C-canon. even worse is this is the SAME character with different opinions each time... But again, this is someone's perception of sidious, and that is why it doesnt make it fact. But all in all i agree with your stance on it but i wanted to at least present how inconsistent canon can be sometimes, not to mention how it changes all the time... and these inconsistencies makes it so tough to debate anything.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
02.23.2013 , 08:49 PM | #420
Quote: Originally Posted by kylewhalon View Post
a couple of these quotes say he's the most powerful, but most of these dont say anything about him being the most powerful sith lord that ever lived... just things he's done or can do. so im assuming ur posting them as evidence of just how powerful he really is and letting us do the math... i also want to note that some of the quotes could be argued against, where its based on a characters perception of sidious.

Because if vader saying "By himself, he could not hope to defeat the most powerful Sith Lord the galaxy had ever known." becomes canon fact.... then so does anakin saying "I'm more powerful than the chancellor, I can over throw him". in fact vader's perception of sidious is C-canon where its from a book, and anakins perception of sidious is G-canon where it was a movie by lucas. so in that comparison, Anakin being the most powerful would prevail, being as how G-canon > C-canon. even worse is this is the SAME character with different opinions each time... But again, this is someone's perception of sidious, and that is why it doesnt make it fact. But all in all i agree with your stance on it but i wanted to at least present how inconsistent canon can be sometimes, not to mention how it changes all the time... and these inconsistencies makes it so tough to debate anything.
Alright so your in agreement then? Also that wasn't Vader saying anything. Not every quote needs to say he is the most powerful Sith ever, those that do are good enough.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.