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Is Hungering Worth It? Formula

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Is Hungering Worth It? Formula

DarthArcon's Avatar


DarthArcon
01.05.2012 , 10:55 PM | #1
Ok, I decided I wanted a good idea of which Marauder build I wanted to spec.

So which is the best tree to max? Ive looked over all three and IMO I gotta stick with Carnage simply because its the biggest damage tree and being stuck with medium armor, a Marauder's best defense truly is nothing but offense; Carnage provides the most damage.

I also looked and saw that, no matter what, a Carnage SM has no choice but to max the tree out at get Massacre. That leaves 10 points to devote elsewhere (by max level).

Hungering seemed the best candidate at first, but there are two complications: 1) it barely heals at all (2% heal is not even close to the average amount of incoming damage) and 2) it requires bleeding. Here is the general problem: there are only two bleeding abilities, and one of them (Deadly Saber) is impossible to get if your specs are maxed out in Carnage. That leaves Rupture...

Ive done a few calculations to see what Hungering's effect would be in this case (lemme know if you see an error)...

Code:
Rupture bleeding hits 6 times per second, but without Deadly Saber that frequency needs to be stretched across its entire cooldown of 15 seconds, which means it is only hitting 0.4 times per second (we'll call this value X).

Hungering only activates on a crit bleed, which would be 16% for my toon (we'll call this variable Y).

That would mean Hungering activates every 0.064 seconds (X*Y).

Hungering heals 2% per crit (call this Z).

The last value is the toon's health, which is 3100 for me atm (we'll call this variable A). 

So the final formula to find Hungering's healing per second is this:
(X*Y*Z*A) = healing per second

On my character, the final answer is 3.968 healing per second.
How could you possible justify that?

Korevas's Avatar


Korevas
01.06.2012 , 12:31 AM | #2
You can not, hungering seems to be both more of a pve talent and better for a full annihilation spec because of it's synergies with other talents from that tree.

If you spec deeper in annihilation it would allow you to spread your rupture around more (pulverize will reset it's cooldown) and thus get a bit more synergy out of short fuse and berserk, so you'll get 6 ticks of 3% health each more often. I'd like to say its not worth it, but then again there is not that much awesomeness in that tree altogether so you might as well just get it.

RealCatmanDoes's Avatar


RealCatmanDoes
01.06.2012 , 08:50 AM | #3
You get an ability (sorry can't remember what it's called) later that "charges your sabers" up the next 3 strikes you perform will cause bleed damage so you can also regain health with that. It takes 3 rage to use though, so I tend to force charge in then use that ability before doing others.

I do think we need something a little better/more effective in the way of healing though, unless I got Quinn I struggle a lot. At the moment I don't feel I have the option to take one of my other companions.

When things get hairy all I got left is a medkit, 90 second cooldown and "call on the force" which has a 20 minute cooldown and can only be used when you companion is with you.

That said the Annihilation seems to be the only one to offer any decent healing. There's a 10% heal in the Rage tree but you have to use Unleash for that (120sec cooldown) and when you want a heal, you might not need to free yourself from being immobilised.

DarthArcon's Avatar


DarthArcon
01.06.2012 , 05:34 PM | #4
Ok, lets look at an Annihilation spec...

In addition to Rupture, you have Saber Wound, which is, as far as I can see, the ONLY other ability that causes bleeding. Lets assume that Rupture and Saber Wound stack (I dont know if they do).

Saber Wound can cause 3 bleeding effects within 15 seconds (the cooldown for the ability is only 12 seconds, but only three bleeding effects done by the ability stack within 15 seconds). Since this is the same timeframe for Rupture, we can use the formula I already made, but multiply it by a factor of 3.

So for my character, Saber Wound would only add another 11.904 healing per second to Rupture's 3.968 H/s for a grand total of 15.872 H/s. Global cooldown is 1.5 seconds, which means a healing of 23.808 per cooldown (or standard enemy attack). I cant remember what an average enemy attack does damage-wise, but I still dont think it would be worth it...

Korevas's Avatar


Korevas
01.06.2012 , 06:06 PM | #5
Yes, this would also mean that you can't focus any single target down because you'll want to spread your bleeds so you'll probably take more damage then what you get back. I can see this talents use maybe in pve if you can keep bleeds on multiple bosses for a longer time, but in general its just not worth it.

DarthArcon's Avatar


DarthArcon
01.06.2012 , 09:24 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Korevas View Post
Yes, this would also mean that you can't focus any single target down because you'll want to spread your bleeds so you'll probably take more damage then what you get back. I can see this talents use maybe in pve if you can keep bleeds on multiple bosses for a longer time, but in general its just not worth it.
I guess I didnt consider multiple targets, though with a 12 second cooldown instead of the 15 second cooldown, that wouldnt really improve heals per second a whole lot.

Dionx's Avatar


Dionx
01.06.2012 , 10:38 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthArcon View Post
I guess I didnt consider multiple targets, though with a 12 second cooldown instead of the 15 second cooldown, that wouldnt really improve heals per second a whole lot.
And then, you take into account berserk which make your 6 next dot tick crit 100% AND heal your raid (yourself included) for 1% each + heal yourself for 2% each tick -> you just heal yourself 18% in a very short time. Even better, at lvl 50 you have frenzy every 2mn30 (in anni spec) you could use berserk two time one after the other for a 36% heal on yourself, 12% on your party/raid.

Drankathar's Avatar


Drankathar
01.06.2012 , 11:19 PM | #8
Your also not taking into account the fact that rupture can be refreshed by using 2 abilities in the anni tree, and that it does stack.

Sure the healing isnt enough to keep you going forever but it makes things damn easier.

DarthArcon's Avatar


DarthArcon
01.06.2012 , 11:50 PM | #9
You could be right about that, perhaps it requires more thought.

BadAsylum's Avatar


BadAsylum
01.08.2012 , 07:50 PM | #10
so I have been playing annihilation tree and focusing on bleeding attacks, the key aspect is berserk in juyo form does 100% crits on bleeding, so I tried to get my surge/crit rating as high as it can go. you kind of have to align the planets to pull it off, beserk,activate relic, deadly sabers, attack 3times, then rupture, im level 44 and I can only do about 1k bleeding effects with 500 healing the relic gives me enough time to do this cycle twice for about 8k bleeding and 4k healing. this is still slow damage over time but I have noticed it catches some people off guard in pvp when that extra damage kicks in. at the end of the day it still doesnt compare with simplicity and the damage I have seen other classes do in pvp like a sith inq doing 6k/sec bugzapper lightning or the operatives stunlock, shiv, kill.

the overall flaw is that you just have too many planets to align for this to be practical, the more actions and time need to set-up just means the odds of failure increase with the amount of interupts and stuns being spammed in this game.