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Why no imperial trooper


VanorDM's Avatar


VanorDM
05.16.2012 , 01:30 PM | #501
Quote: Originally Posted by Crito View Post
I'm arguing that the clone troopers were never the good guys.
You are wrong, it's just that simple. The clone troopers are the good guys at the start. The fact that they had been programed to turn on the Jedi doesn't make them bad guys. It made them preprogramed to do something at a future date.

I will agree they could of done it differently, and the Imperial Trooper could of been a class. But of the two the Republic Trooper makes more sense in this game. Republic Troopers are more independent and more likely to be involved in the type of heroic storyline that Bioware was shooting for.

Crito's Avatar


Crito
05.16.2012 , 01:42 PM | #502
Quote: Originally Posted by VanorDM View Post
You are wrong, it's just that simple.
I think what you meant to say is "I disagree" rather than "You are wrong. It's just that simple". I'm assuming this, because I'm assuming that you didn't intend to come across as quite so rude.

Quote: Originally Posted by VanorDM View Post
The clone troopers are the good guys at the start. The fact that they had been programed to turn on the Jedi doesn't make them bad guys. It made them preprogramed to do something at a future date.
So, by that argument, a movie bad guy is actually a good guy until they do their first 'bad' act. Personally I don't think that way. To me Republic Troopers make no sense at all. To reiterate my earlier arguments, in the movies, there were no republic troopers at the beginning. The real bad guys of the films created troopers as tools for them to use at a future date.

Now, you can disagree with that view point as much as you like, but please don't call my argument stupid and in return I will continue to resist pointing out the basic grammatical error you have managed to make in every one of your recent posts. Deal?
"Entitlement" - The new Godwinism

Lordgeneral's Avatar


Lordgeneral
05.16.2012 , 02:12 PM | #503
Quote: Originally Posted by ColonelColt View Post
I don't even know if he WAS a commander of an elite commando unit. To be honest I doubt he was. I said even if HE was special, not that he was commanding something special.





Actually, this is wrong. It doesn't give them details in any way, shape or form. It just tells them something bad is about to happen. It's their decades of training that allows them to interpret that into something useable.





Jedi/Sith are not THAT magnificent. Unlike the game, they can't force-spam when in combat. It requires a lot of focus and concentration and makes them very vulnerable to attack. If it's 1v1 then they can force-spam more freely, but in a warzone situation you wont see a force user using the force in any blatant way, they certainly wont be levitating people up and zapping them or anything. So without their more blatant force powers, then year, soldiers can often go toe-to-toe with them.




Your example is a bad one because Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, they weren't really that special. They were all royalty sure, but combat-wise they were not that amazing. They didn't have any super amazing talents or anything. All they had were years of training. Gandalf is about the only one who was anything special.

Whether you want to admit it, an everyday soldier is very much a match for a jedi or sith. You are WOEFULLY overestimating how powerful force users are.
Going off topic here for a sec: Aragorn was a ranger (not to mention the heir to the throne of Gondor and a descendant of Numenor). A ranger in Tolkien's middle earth was one of the deadliest men to roam the lands. They could even hold off the Nazgul in a fair fight (ofc they couldn't kill them). Legolas and Gimli on the other hand were not heroic to begin with, but like say the inquisitor story, they rise up as they stick with frodo to begin with, help Rohan at helms deep and eventually rally with the other rangers at the battle of Pellanor, they become few of the most well known and heroic individuals in middle earth.

Back to topic.

VanorDM's Avatar


VanorDM
05.16.2012 , 02:58 PM | #504
Quote: Originally Posted by Crito View Post
I'm assuming that you didn't intend to come across as quite so rude.
I don't intend to be rude, but that doesn't change the fact that you're quite simply wrong. The very idea that they're somehow the bad guys, because of some event that will happen in the future doesn't work. By that logic Darth Vader was actually a good guy the whole time, since he switched sides at the end.

The Clone Troopers when they had freedom of choice, worked with the Jedi and fought for the Republic, it was only when they had the freedom of choice removed from them that they became bad guys.

This is especially true in the Clone Wars TV show. The members of the ARC squad are clearly heroes and the "good guys".

Quote:
I will continue to resist pointing out the basic grammatical error you have managed to make in every one of your recent posts.
Feel free, I will gladly admit that my grammar is not great, I'm a product of public education. That doesn't however change the value of my arguments, and if you feel a need to attack me in that nature go for it. It won't help your arguments at all and will in fact be nothing more then an ad hominem attack on your part.

Crito's Avatar


Crito
05.16.2012 , 03:55 PM | #505
Quote: Originally Posted by VanorDM View Post
Feel free, I will gladly admit that my grammar is not great, I'm a product of public education. That doesn't however change the value of my arguments, and if you feel a need to attack me in that nature go for it. It won't help your arguments at all and will in fact be nothing more then an ad hominem attack on your part.
You are quite right and I apologise.

The fact remains however that you don't seem to be able to make the distinction between disagreeing with someone and saying that someone is simply wrong. I can see the merit of your arguments and you are right to make them. I do not agree with them, but I can see your point of view. However, I do find your 'I'm right, you're wrong' attitude quite rude so I will agree to disagree with you and trouble this thread no further.
"Entitlement" - The new Godwinism

VanorDM's Avatar


VanorDM
05.16.2012 , 04:07 PM | #506
Quote: Originally Posted by Crito View Post
However, I do find your 'I'm right, you're wrong' attitude quite rude so I will agree to disagree with you and trouble this thread no further.
I have no intent in being rude, and apologize. I generally do agree to disagree on maters of opinion. However in this case I think you are trying to apply an opinion to something that in my mind at least is objective.

Saying that Darth Vader is a cooler villain then Darth Maul, is a matter of opinion, there's no objective way to prove this one way or another.

The idea that the Clone Troopers are actually the bad guys is in my mind an objective statement, one that can be proven false, because in Ep2 and every episode of the Clone Wars they are clearly the good guys by every objective standard I can think of.

When you compare the screen time of the Clone Wars and Ep 2, to the Ep 4-6, it's clear that the vast, vast majority of time you see white armored troopers, they are the good guys. Go into any store like Walmart or Toys-r-us and look at the Star Wars section, the Clone Troopers are packaged as good guys.

The last bit of Ep 3 had the clone troopers as bad guys yes, but when that happened they had their free will taken away by Sidius, and most likely had any trace of personality crushed in the process. In the Clone Wars show, there are clear differences in personality between the troopers, even though they're all clones.

So to say they are the bad guys the whole time, is I believe objectively false for the reasons I have listed. They clearly are on the "side of the angels" for most of the stories they are part of.

All that said, I again apologize for sounding rude.

tolaf's Avatar


tolaf
05.17.2012 , 06:45 PM | #507
You are forgetting that the republic troopers had choice all a long, they were taught to believe that they were bringing order to the galaxy by killing the Jedi, order 66 was an order, not a program.
Dark Nova leader of the Sin-gie clan

CassusVerda's Avatar


CassusVerda
05.18.2012 , 02:09 PM | #508
Because the Trooper you play as isn't a Grunt like an Imperial Trooper, rather he is a Special Forces Commando akin to something like a Clone Commando or ARC Trooper from the Clone Wars.

I personally would have loved to have been an Imperial Commando, but Bioware decided not to...infact I think the Agent could have been the Commando,with Sniper Rifles and Blaster Rifles, while the Bounty Hunter could have had the Smuggler counterpart as both aren't officially conscripted into either Factions Military.