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!Big Concern!: Ranged vs. Melee DPS in FPs & Ops

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
!Big Concern!: Ranged vs. Melee DPS in FPs & Ops

edguuy's Avatar


edguuy
01.05.2012 , 10:34 AM | #41
Well, with last 2 expansions WoW became TOTALLY melee-friendly.

Hard time (if you can call it hard) was for Ranged DPS.

Vaestmannaeyjar's Avatar


Vaestmannaeyjar
01.05.2012 , 10:46 AM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Mandrax View Post
Also, in terms of group make up for bosses and such, it's best to be able to have some flexibility in your raid groups.
If you get booted because of your class, the game design is a failure.

Vafont's Avatar


Vafont
01.05.2012 , 10:50 AM | #43
OP makes a fair point. Most hard mode encounters are MUCH easier using ranged dps.

Sicknss's Avatar


Sicknss
01.05.2012 , 10:53 AM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by edguuy View Post
Well, with last 2 expansions WoW became TOTALLY melee-friendly.

Hard time (if you can call it hard) was for Ranged DPS.
You mean in wrath where even the low dps warlocks occupied more raid spots in top end guilds because of the utility they brought, where ranged had more work but were required and therefor more sought after? Or cataclysm where it was rough to get into heroics early on due to lacking CC as melee and up time was so bad they couldn't compete on the raid meters for a long time?

Just want to ensure we're talking about the same last 2 expansions... cata was the first time I actually shelved all my melee.

edguuy's Avatar


edguuy
01.05.2012 , 11:19 AM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by Sicknss View Post
You mean in wrath where even the low dps warlocks occupied more raid spots in top end guilds because of the utility they brought, where ranged had more work but were required and therefor more sought after? Or cataclysm where it was rough to get into heroics early on due to lacking CC as melee and up time was so bad they couldn't compete on the raid meters for a long time?

Just want to ensure we're talking about the same last 2 expansions... cata was the first time I actually shelved all my melee.

With melee-friendly i meant boss tactics/mechanics, melees apart from kick didn't have to move/avoid stuff/change targets.

If we talk about utilities then ok, ranged had way more than melee.But the encounters per-se were way easier for melees.

Sicknss's Avatar


Sicknss
01.05.2012 , 11:25 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by edguuy View Post
With melee-friendly i meant boss tactics/mechanics, melees apart from kick didn't have to move/avoid stuff/change targets.

If we talk about utilities then ok, ranged had way more than melee.But the encounters per-se were way easier for melees.
So your definition of melee friendly means they had less responsibility and therefore were less likely to have a spot in the group? Doesn't seem very friendly to me.

Smokt's Avatar


Smokt
01.05.2012 , 11:32 AM | #47
One solution is to give ranged DPS cast times and melee DPS instant abilities.
Another is to give melee DPS higher armor than ranged.
Of course if you design encounters that dont provide melee with opportunities to utilize those advantages then its pretty much a waste. Thats the situation we are in now.

Fortunately, my Operative has a healing spec and a DOT spec (albeit its not really a ranged spec) so I should be able to find a place if I so choose.

theadjectivenoun's Avatar


theadjectivenoun
01.05.2012 , 12:02 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by Perlexia View Post
I thought I'll bring this up here, since it has been really bothering me lately. Hopefully developers (Hello Georg!) will read this, and this will be addressed. In short:

Ranged DPS as of right now have massive advantages over Melee DPS in a number of encounters, especially in HM FPs and Ops, whereas the opposite is never the case. While this can be argued for other games too, I feel its excessive in this game, making some encounters considerably harder, i.e. when you have 2 melee DPS in the group, and giving incentive to raid leaders to just get range DPS.

1. Melee are much more subjected to AOE abilities on several encounters, while Ranged DPS can avoid it easily in many cases. Sure, many AOE abilities are avoidable for melee by having them run out or spread out, but that leads us to point 2:

2. Trying to avoid AOE abilities for melee DPS by running out causes their sustained DPS to drop off relatively to Ranged DPS.

Here are just 3 examples, I am sure there are many more.


Example 1:

Boarding Party HM Final boss

The Commander's missile puts melee DPS at a much greater disadvantage, due to the fact that they have to stand closer together and cant really spread out from each other to avoid the AE damage.

Example 2:

Khel Thrak (2nd boss Battle of Ilum)

Same thing as in example 1, with his shield probe ability. I am aware melee should avoid hitting him when he gets the buff, but ranged DPS dont really have to worry about ever taking that damage. Secondly, moving away from him when the adds spawn is another burden that Ranged DPS dont have to deal with, at all. This gives them an advantage on damage dealt as well.

Example 3:

Gharj (2nd Boss Eternity Vault)

His pounce ability is not that critical, but it still serves as an example of: Melee DPS have to eat dmg, while Ranged DPS do not. Because Ranged DPS do not have to run out, they have higher sustained DPS because of melee DPS travel time.

Example 4:

SOA (Final Boss Eternity Vault)

The very design of the fight (especially on middle & bottom platform) requires alot of running around and switching targets. Again, because of their longer travel time (even with current mobility abilties) gimp their DPS noticably. Additionally, the lightning balls are much more dangerous for melee DPS than for ranged DPS, due to the fact that they are forced to stand much closer together, while ranged can spread.


To alleviate this i can think of several solutions. I am aware that these bring along other balance issues in PVP. They are only suggestions, and there is more discussion required:

- Give melee dps higher DPS which should even out sustained DPS over a fight, because they cant DPS some bosses for the same duration than ranged can.
- Increase their mobility
- Give them some sort of AOE mitigation.
George Zoeller already said he doesn't care for the consumer, so your complaints fall on deaf ears.
"The Strange will walk alone"
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Eleithrit's Avatar


Eleithrit
01.05.2012 , 12:16 PM | #49
If it makes you feel better you could watch an Esseles HM run with a gunslinger and watch them die to the targeted AOE because they can't break from cover fast enough. Forced to do some running while jumping thing just to escape the blast which works..sometimes.

Poac's Avatar


Poac
01.05.2012 , 12:43 PM | #50
Range mechanics are negligible, on almost all encounters you can outheal or simply not move and do maximum DPS. Nearly every mechanic for melee will result in immediate death if not avoided. Range is better in almost every encounter (pve) and some (pvp) in the game.