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Do you think light side sith are still sith?(spoiler warning)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Do you think light side sith are still sith?(spoiler warning)

lokdron's Avatar


lokdron
01.04.2012 , 09:08 PM | #1
Ok this has been talked about for awhile and In my opinion LS sith are not sith anymore as they get further into there story/higher LS rank after playing an LS sith warrior to see what it is like I don't see how you can consider them sith. I try and state sources from books and lore to support why they aren't and I do agree they are interesting to play even if I prefer being dark side. I mean In my opinion if you reach about light 4 or 5 you should not be able to use majority of your dark side abilities but for gameplay reasons bioware did not do this. I mean if you walked into baras office or the academy of korriban and told them all that you are light side what do you think they would do? They would kill you.

I want to hear what other people think because in my opinion after playing kotor 2 and reading various empire and sith novels out there light side sith are not sith IMO. I am not opposing people playing LS sith but it annoys me when people say they still are and I ask why and they say i use my emotions! so it makes me sith! I hold the same opinion with dark jedi as well. So I am asking people who have better star wars knowledge than me what is your opinion on this?

edit:I put spoilers because people may use sources from this game or any source in star wars.

bfishback's Avatar


bfishback
01.04.2012 , 10:49 PM | #2
Well the light side sith in this game aren't really "nice", they just aren't total ***** like the dark side are.

Theoretically, I'm sure if Darth Sidious or Darth Bane played this game, they'd choose some of the light side choices as well.

Bioware seems to think that if you want to be dark side you need to murder everyone. That's really not the dark side, that's just being a homicidal maniac. Killing without reason is dumb.

Guildrum's Avatar


Guildrum
01.04.2012 , 10:51 PM | #3
Jedi = suppressing emotion in order to gain strength

Sith= Use emotion to gains strength

But who says it must be hate and rage and fury? Why can't it be compassion and mercy that drives you? That's how I view Light Side Sith anyhow, not giving in to hate and rage, but instead letting the good emotions give them their strength.
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lokdron's Avatar


lokdron
01.04.2012 , 11:07 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by bfishback View Post
Well the light side sith in this game aren't really "nice", they just aren't total ***** like the dark side are.

Theoretically, I'm sure if Darth Sidious or Darth Bane played this game, they'd choose some of the light side choices as well.

Bioware seems to think that if you want to be dark side you need to murder everyone. That's really not the dark side, that's just being a homicidal maniac. Killing without reason is dumb.
(excuse the grammer I pretty much suck at it)

I understand that there is a difference between picking a light option here and there and still remaining dark side hell my dark 5 SI has 500 light points but I am talking about sith that embrace the light all together like light 1,2 and 3 etc. Plus the sith don't teach to use positive emotions when you say to spindrall in the SI story "I understand I use my emotions to become stronger!(while smiling)" Spindrall pretty much says to you that you are doing it wrong and humility and compassion is the thing for slaves not sith. Plus bane got rid of all sense of morality he murdered a family a dad and two kids I think. Plus I don't remember darth vader sparing people for failure like we can do in the game.

I think the reason why sith shun positive emotions is because their religion is about the dark side and the dark side only becomes stronger through negative emotions while positive emotions strengthen the light. Plus showing compassion and mercy sets more chains on you like how malgus killed his wife because almost every character in book was exploiting his love for his wife. So his wife was a chain to keep him from doing what malgus needs to do.

I mean if lore had its way in this game the further we go up the light we start to lose dark side abilities because dark side abilities become weaker the further you go up the light and vice versa for dark. Plus in the jedi academy games karn and luke start getting REALLY worried when you invest in dark side powers saying they can sense a lot of anger within you and if you invest in light powers they say you are at peace or something like that.

I mean in the sith warrior story when I was playing LS i met the dark side version my self I also think its an incarnation of the dark side because I said to it that I followed sith way and the way of master to the letter. It said "stop lying to myself you are not sith". It then said if you embraced passion, rage and love you could be stronger and one dialouge option which seemed to be the light option because the other conversations have you agreeing with the dark side manifisation

The sith warrior says that all those things clouds your judgement. After that scene I personally think that the sith warrior starts to embrace concepts of the jedi and lets not forget the sith view the light side as heretical and tainted. I mean as a LS sith warrior you are pretty much hiding you true alignment as the dark self said baras and all the other sith can smell the "rot" of the light around me. If the sith accepted the light I don't think they would go to such lengths to seal away an LS sith tomb and destroy all that he was. I mean would you lot consider a dark jedi a jedi? I sure won't after playing a LS sith warrior i simply did not feel like a sith and in my opinion many of the LS options are dam right heretical by sith standards. I simply can't see how you can still be called a sith after you send nomen back to the jedi and pretty much help jaesa out and keep her on the path of the light when the sith consider the light as tainted and heretical. Hell in my opinion quuin disproved a lot when I was saying that I would fight the forces of the dark aka empire and sith and when I made jaesa light he disproved again. Yet when I was dark in these situations he approved and quuin is known to be an empire first man. I mean look at darth revan the sith destory anyone who choices to worship him and his deeds because revan went back to the jedi and rejoined the light. Yet the sith in swtor remeber malak and think he is darn right awesome and deserves to be rembered because malak pretty kept true to the sith way and the dark side.

I mean at the end of balmorra all the jedi that are captured darth lachris ships them off to darth marr to be converted to the dark side. Plus what do you lot think would happen if you walked into the sith academy or baras office and told em that you are light side? They would either a make sure you convert back to the dark side or b kill you.

I personally think the only reason why LS sith and DS jedi keep using their religion respective abilties is for gameplay reasons and balance because I remember bioware saying that your skills would change depending on your alignment. Lore wise a LS force user cannot use dark side powers well and the only jedi that use DS powers are either grey or thinning the line.

After going over sith lore and playing a LS sith I simply can't see LS sith being a sith anymore after what happens on tatooine and beyond(the whole thing at the end of chapter 1 sealed the deal for me that LS SW is not a sith) after playing the LS sith warrior. Yes they are interesting to play but I can't think of my character as a sith. Its the same with dark jedi I don't know how anyone can consider a dark jedi a jedi.

TheTurniipKing's Avatar


TheTurniipKing
01.05.2012 , 12:53 AM | #5
The Jedi and the Sith are truly blind to each other's strengths. Both are terrified of the other. This is why Darth Revan has a cult, and Tulak Hord has a tomb.

TheTurniipKing's Avatar


TheTurniipKing
01.05.2012 , 12:56 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by lokdron View Post
After going over sith lore and playing a LS sith I simply can't see LS sith being a sith anymore after what happens on tatooine and beyond(the whole thing at the end of chapter 1 sealed the deal for me that LS SW is not a sith) after playing the LS sith warrior. Yes they are interesting to play but I can't think of my character as a sith. Its the same with dark jedi I don't know how anyone can consider a dark jedi a jedi.
Darth Jadus springs to mind for some reason. The Sith are supposed to be driven by passion, but whatever passion drives Jadus is buried deep.

The Sith do enjoy entrapping and tormenting Jedi until they have no choice to draw on the Dark Side or perish, though,

lokdron's Avatar


lokdron
01.05.2012 , 01:03 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by TheTurniipKing View Post
Darth Jadus springs to mind for some reason. The Sith are supposed to be driven by passion, but whatever passion drives Jadus is buried deep.

The Sith do enjoy entrapping and tormenting Jedi until they have no choice to draw on the Dark Side or perish, though,
I like darth jadus after playing IA storyline he keeps his secrets and motives close so no one can guess what he is doing. The thing he wants imo is to spread the sith teachings to everyone that is his passion he wants to make people embrace hate and fear like the sith. Now that I think about it darth jadus kinda seems like revan when he was a sith lord in some regards.

This is the reason why I really like kotor 2 if you have the restoration patch the game goes into what makes someone a sith? What makes someone a jedi? How can you truly be one the respective orders? What can we do to improve on these respective orders teachings? Plus the game looks at why both fail at times. How the dark side can be self destructive and how the light may blind you to everything thats happening around you. Plus the game also talks about how the force is abit of a douche for using the sith and jedi to balance itself out and stuff like that. Thats why my DS exile does not murder everyone she comes across.

Well kotor 2 it goes into the fact to truly defeat an enemy is to make them see your way of things to make them see things how you see it to make them as dark as you. Thats why I enjoyed making my companions fall to the dark side in kotor 2 and that is the reason why I love the end of DS SW chapter 1.

Viera's Avatar


Viera
01.05.2012 , 01:10 AM | #8
You have to keep in mind that really, as a Sith Warrior, your Dark and Lightside choices are less "Good and Evil" and more "Law and Chaos".

Common choices:
-Darkside: Kill 'im where he stands
-Lightside: Imprison him, ultimately leading to their torture and exeuction at the hands of others.

I play my Sith Warrior as mostly lightsided but she is in no means nice, and she is not above taking the dark path for efficiency. In the case of traitors, she frequently kills them outright.


Quote:
Lawful Evil is referred to as the "Dominator" or "Diabolic" alignment. Characters of this alignment see a well-ordered system as being easier to exploit, and show a combination of desirable and undesirable traits; while they usually obey their superiors and keep their word, they care nothing for the rights and freedoms of other individuals and are not averse to twisting the rules to work in their favor. Examples of this alignment include tyrants, devils, undiscriminating mercenary types who have a strict code of conduct, and loyal soldiers who enjoy the act of killing.

Like Lawful Good Paladins, Lawful Evil characters may sometimes find themselves faced with the dilemma of whether to obey law or evil when the two conflict. However, their issues with Law versus Evil are more concerned with "Will I get caught?" versus "How does this benefit me?"

Boba Fett of Star Wars, and X-Men's Magneto are cited examples of Lawful Evil characters.
Quote:
Chaotic Evil is referred to as the "Destroyer" or "Demonic" alignment. Characters of this alignment tend to have no respect for rules, other people's lives, or anything but their own desires, which are typically selfish and cruel. They set a high value on personal freedom, but do not have any regard for the lives or freedom of other people. They do not work well in groups, as they resent being given orders, and usually behave themselves only out of fear of punishment.

It is not compulsory for a Chaotic Evil character to be constantly performing sadistic acts just for the sake of being evil, or constantly disobeying orders just for the sake of causing chaos. They do however enjoy the suffering of others, and view honor and self-discipline as weaknesses. Serial killers and monsters of limited intelligence are typically Chaotic Evil.

According to the Complete Scoundrel sourcebook, Carl Denham from King Kong and Riddick from Pitch Black are Chaotic Evil
That said, you should not lose access to abilities simply because you swing one way or the other alignment wise. The force is the force, no ability is inherently evil. No ability is inherently good.

Example, Luke Skywalker uses Force Choke and a variation of Force Lightening.

You are also still a classically trained Sith, there's no reason to forget what you have learnt simply because you do not run around stuffing babies onto spikes.
"I was a historian once, gathering the relics of the Jedi, learning the ancient mysteries. Always, there were more questions."

SinisterHavok's Avatar


SinisterHavok
01.05.2012 , 01:19 AM | #9
I think in lower lvls they probably are still Sith, just as luke himself walked a dark path for a short time, which supports Dark Jedi, but at some point the powers shut off, or they r hunted down. I cannot see how u could have a light side sith, that defets the whole purpose of being sith employed by the empire and set loose to reign destruction and chaos, very hard to do when ur being morally righteous

alittle light/dark here and there i can understand but when ur actions are overwhelmingly good/bad you have lost the connection to where your power comes from.

lokdron's Avatar


lokdron
01.05.2012 , 01:22 AM | #10
I agree Viera thats how I saw the sith warrior LS decisions at the START of the story but as it went on I kinda felt like a jedi by the end of chapter 1 as a LS SW plus a lawful evil sith would not do what the LS SW does at the end of chapter 1. I mean as I said my SI reached dark 5 but she had i think 500-600 light side points during her road to 50 there is a difference between doing light decisions here and there and then there is embracing the light all together.

I mean while playing a LS sith warrior sparing a jedi that has no benefit towards you or information left a bad taste in my mouth plus helping a house that is allied with the republic is just wrong. Lets not forget sending nomen back to the jedi after he falls to the dark side that single act prevents me from calling a LS sith a sith. lets not forget trying to work with the jedi the sith most hated enemies and lets not forget you lie to baras afterwards that you killed nomen. Thats not really lawful evil imo hell quinn is FOR the empire and he is pretty lawful evil and he disproves of what you do at the end of chapter 1 as a LS sith. Quuin is a patriot of the empire. Plus meeting that dark incarnation also proves that LS sith are not sith because you did not take advantage of jaesa to add her power to your own as sith normally do so you could take down baras in the future. If you take the LS route with her you are working WITH her.

I decided to play a LS sith in the first place because people on this forum keep telling me they are sith. Stuff that happens in the game tell me otherwise plus after going over general sith lore. I mean look at darth vader thats lawful evil in star wars he obeys his master and empire laws kills people for failure for failing at the job the empire has given them.

edit:As sinister said at the start yeah I would still call em sith but as the story just went on I simply can't call LS sith a sith anymore. I simply don't see how after events in the game LS sith pretty much spit on the sith code and teachings.