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Baizak's Avatar


Baizak
01.05.2012 , 11:29 AM | #51
I have never once missed force pull. I use saber throw for LOS pulls while tanking and closing the gap is never an issue for me in PvP.
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Guaritorr's Avatar


Guaritorr
01.05.2012 , 11:42 AM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by Baizak View Post
I have never once missed force pull. I use saber throw for LOS pulls while tanking and closing the gap is never an issue for me in PvP.
Yeah, but why deal with a Jugg who has to LoS Pull every pull so he can actually tank those ranged mobs, when you can just get a powertech who can charge in and grapple them, then aoe everything. I've been tanking flashpoints and heroics all the way from 14 to 48 so far, and last night for the first time, my friends and I needed another dps, when we saw he was a powertech with more health then me, we decided to let him tank, and it was depressing seeing just how many tools he had, and I swear he took less damage as well.

So yeah, while we may be capable of getting the job done, why make it harder on the group by being a Jugg?

Dreadspectre's Avatar


Dreadspectre
01.05.2012 , 11:56 AM | #53
PvE players don't really need pull. PvP players do. I play Vengeance and yes, Unstoppable is pretty awesome but it doesn't mean you win every fight vs a ranged. It lasts a whole 4 seconds, if the ranged has any brain at all all they have to do is wait until the little oh so obvious orange shield that forms on you is gone to use their knockback/CC on you.

Then you say "chilling scream them nub they won't get away." Why yes, I do chilling scream immediately after landing a charge(for free mind you.) Problem is most ranged classes have access to a slow of their own. Sooooo..knockback>snare and there is now a distance between us that I won't make up for. I am now left waiting for CD on charge to finish while I maybe do a saber throw for some rage and meh damage.

"Force Choke them nub" I would love to, but unfortunately the range is so abysmally small that I'm out of range after the knockback.

Only reason you'll ever stick on a ranged that isn't braindead is because their CC/Knockback is on CD or someone else is holding them for you. Rage Juggs have an easier time with a 2nd charge though. No one is going to die in the 4 seconds of CC free time you have, especially considering that you will get at most 3 abilities off in that time frame due to GCD.

Put pull on a 2 min cd, **** a 5 min CD. I don't care. Give me something. Make it a Vengeance high tree talent, replace one of our ****** bleeds with it or something.

Afaramas's Avatar


Afaramas
01.05.2012 , 12:05 PM | #54
Damn the L2P crowd out in force in this thread.

And what's with all the WOW references, So you played a warrior in WoW which is tougher to play than a DK (whatever that is), who cares, really.

The main tanking class, which has nearly always been melee, has had a pull mechanic, in pratically all recent MMO's I have played. It's a bloody basic requirement. Crazy that we don't have one, irrespective of whether other classes do. I have fun with my force push but I would trade that in for a far more aligned skill of force pull any day of the week.

Please quit it with the L2P stuff it's not really impressing anyone it just looks a bit childish tbh, and it's not about being a clone of another class this is a core melee tank class requirement that's missing, spec it high into the Immortal tree if you are worried about it's use in PVP.

Aniliss's Avatar


Aniliss
01.05.2012 , 12:06 PM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by Dreadspectre View Post
PvE players don't really need pull. PvP players do. I play Vengeance and yes, Unstoppable is pretty awesome but it doesn't mean you win every fight vs a ranged. It lasts a whole 4 seconds, if the ranged has any brain at all all they have to do is wait until the little oh so obvious orange shield that forms on you is gone to use their knockback/CC on you.

Then you say "chilling scream them nub they won't get away." Why yes, I do chilling scream immediately after landing a charge(for free mind you.) Problem is most ranged classes have access to a slow of their own. Sooooo..knockback>snare and there is now a distance between us that I won't make up for. I am now left waiting for CD on charge to finish while I maybe do a saber throw for some rage and meh damage.

"Force Choke them nub" I would love to, but unfortunately the range is so abysmally small that I'm out of range after the knockback.

Only reason you'll ever stick on a ranged that isn't braindead is because their CC/Knockback is on CD or someone else is holding them for you. Rage Juggs have an easier time with a 2nd charge though. No one is going to die in the 4 seconds of CC free time you have, especially considering that you will get at most 3 abilities off in that time frame due to GCD.

Put pull on a 2 min cd, **** a 5 min CD. I don't care. Give me something. Make it a Vengeance high tree talent, replace one of our ****** bleeds with it or something.
I've been pvping vengeance since lv 10. I love the spec but we don't need force pull either. That would be entirely too OP. Unstoppable with a force pull.. we would be almost unkitable.. also being able to use Intercede as a nice utility move if any teammates are around.. 3 gap closers.. nah. If you want a gap closer go Rage spec and get Obliterate ( even though it has the same range as force choke) If anything, (not saying it's needed) increase the range of Force Choke from 10 M to like 13-15.
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Dreadspectre's Avatar


Dreadspectre
01.05.2012 , 12:35 PM | #56
We would not be almost unkiteable, it would have a CD and as I stated I wouldn't even care if it had a 5 minute CD. I've been Vengeance since 10 as well, doesn't mean that somehow you gain mystical insights into not ever being kited.

I covered it very well, the only reason you will EVER stay on a ranged is because either:

1. They are very bad and don't know how to wait the 3-4 seconds for Unstoppable to fade before using a knockback/CC

2. Their CC/Knockback is on CD.

Intervene, while useable as a gap closer IF a teammate is around, is not a gaurantee closer so I don't count it. So essentially all Vengeance Juggs have is a 15 sec Charge and a 50% slow. Reminds me of another warrior class...except that one has a 4 second knockdown, a snare that becomes a root, a ground targeted 50sec cd jump and bleeds that actually deal damage.(And yet despite all that they are considered junkish since at least last season with a rapidly declining population)

Edit: In no way am I saying Juggs are god awful, but to say that giving us a pull, even a very long CD version would make us OP in anyway shape or form..just not true.

Noth's Avatar


Noth
01.05.2012 , 12:39 PM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by Dreadspectre View Post
PvE players don't really need pull. PvP players do. I play Vengeance and yes, Unstoppable is pretty awesome but it doesn't mean you win every fight vs a ranged. It lasts a whole 4 seconds, if the ranged has any brain at all all they have to do is wait until the little oh so obvious orange shield that forms on you is gone to use their knockback/CC on you.

Then you say "chilling scream them nub they won't get away." Why yes, I do chilling scream immediately after landing a charge(for free mind you.) Problem is most ranged classes have access to a slow of their own. Sooooo..knockback>snare and there is now a distance between us that I won't make up for. I am now left waiting for CD on charge to finish while I maybe do a saber throw for some rage and meh damage.

"Force Choke them nub" I would love to, but unfortunately the range is so abysmally small that I'm out of range after the knockback.

Only reason you'll ever stick on a ranged that isn't braindead is because their CC/Knockback is on CD or someone else is holding them for you. Rage Juggs have an easier time with a 2nd charge though. No one is going to die in the 4 seconds of CC free time you have, especially considering that you will get at most 3 abilities off in that time frame due to GCD.

Put pull on a 2 min cd, **** a 5 min CD. I don't care. Give me something. Make it a Vengeance high tree talent, replace one of our ****** bleeds with it or something.
It should be a tank talent not a vengeance talent. Tanks need it more in pve and it serves a tanks role more than a dps role.
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Dreadspectre's Avatar


Dreadspectre
01.05.2012 , 12:39 PM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by Noth View Post
It should be a tank talent not a vengeance talent. Tanks need it more in pve and it serves a tanks role more than a dps role.
You already have a ranged pull..its called saber throw...

Aslo taunt has some range on it..

And of course you also have charge>smash

Bullsith's Avatar


Bullsith
01.05.2012 , 12:48 PM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by Dreadspectre View Post
You already have a ranged pull..its called saber throw...

Aslo taunt has some range on it..

And of course you also have charge>smash
Wich is nothing next to what a Powertech can do. Yeah we need it, especially in PVE if we want to compete with the other tanks. Bioware feels we do not need Force Pull, I'll understand when they tell me why Powertechs and Vanguards do, I mean they have all the tools we have plus a much easier time to get and keep aggro from ranged targets. But right now I'm not seeing the logic behind the removal of force pull from a melee tank and give to a ranged tank.

I'm getting really bored of these weak reasons why people think we don't need force pull, especially from those who don't even play Immoral spec, or even Juggs.
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Dreadspectre's Avatar


Dreadspectre
01.05.2012 , 12:50 PM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by Bullsith View Post
Wich is nothing next to what a Powertech can do. Yeah we need it, especially in PVE if we want to compete with the other tanks. Bioware feels we do not need Force Pull, I'll understand when they tell me why Powertechs and Vanguards do, I mean they have all the tools we have plus a much easier time to get and keep aggro from ranged targets. But right now I'm not seeing the logic behind the removal of force pull from a melee tank and give to a ranged tank.

I'm getting really bored of these weak reasons why people think we don't need force pull, especially from those who don't even play Immoral spec, or even Juggs.
Maybe you should read my last few posts..I'm a Vengeance Jugg who WANTS pull...
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