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No Nerfs needed - buffs are urgent!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
No Nerfs needed - buffs are urgent!

Pandabutt's Avatar


Pandabutt
01.05.2012 , 08:55 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by chton View Post
Crafting requires some kind of skill? Are you serious? You should be rewarded for exactly what? I'm curious as to what knowledge is needed to get to 400 in any crew skill. Seriously, what other than time is required to be a master crafter in this game?
I never understand why people want crafting to produce greater items than actually playing the game when most crafting can be done when afk or doing something else while waiting for companions to return. If crafting produces equivalent gear than any competent guild will simple have everything ready for their members when the reach level 50. I'd rather have them kill silly mindless time wasting crafting than the actual game.
I don't get why these crafting fans never see the other side of things, if crafting produces the best gear whats the sense in questing or PvPing? And if people say you should do those things for fun and not the gear, lets see how long people will play if there is nothing to be gained from them.
The goal is to bring craftng on par with PvP and Raid gear... or at the very least ABOVE VENDOR.

Also, by the same logic, why can't you ever see if from the other perspective?

If Crafting, PvP, and Raid all produced the same quality gear players would have an actual choice as to which route to take rather than feeling forced to get their gear a certain way. Crafting may not require "skill" but it does require time and effort, a lot of it. It DESERVES to be rewarded. We sink millions upon millions of credits into our crafts to get sub-par gear, that is hardly a fair trade off, in-fact we are getting cheated.

You want your raid or pvp gear that you worked oh so hard for to be top notch while the crafters who slave day after day trying to get those top notch schematics end result with something that can't even come remotely close to matching you. Who's the real one asking to be rewarded for doing next to nothing?

Not to mention, those very same crafters have to run your raids over and over again to get the rare BoP materials they need for their top of the line crafted gear. Clearly they are putting a hell of a lot more effort into getting their gear than you are. Their effort should be rewarded.

_Flin_'s Avatar


_Flin_
01.05.2012 , 09:01 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Pandabutt View Post
Not to mention, those very same crafters have to run your raids over and over again to get the rare BoP materials they need for their top of the line crafted gear. Clearly they are putting a hell of a lot more effort into getting their gear than you are. Their effort should be rewarded.
This.

And, you could just give crafters level 58 items that benefit crafting. Or benefit companions. Or farming. Or reduce speedtravel cooldowns. Or whatever.
No raider and no pvp-er would ever wear that.

But for a crafter that would be useful and rewarding.
EDIT: Instead of feeling like a fool cause he bothered in the first place, instead of going slicing, scavenging, archaeology.

Belkiratwo's Avatar


Belkiratwo
01.05.2012 , 09:08 AM | #23
I have to say that the crafting system is by far the most disappointing aspect of this game so far.

Other than slicing to continue to make money selling mission schematics and Bio for the consumables there is absolutely ZERO place for crafting in end game.


Things that should have been included at release


- unique items for each crafting profession, whether it's a trinket, weapon, mod, something that provides a direct benefit at 400/lvl50.

- raiding schematics that allow craftable gear that is on par or top of the line only obtainable through raiding

- items that are not replaced by entry level pvp and heroic instances


It seems that crafting in this game is very similar to crafting in a game like Skyrim, it's just something to do but doesn't actually give you anything that you can't get off some random mob out in the non-raid world.


For now I'll continue with nothing but gathering professions.



Angry Rant: Why the hell would you waste developer hours on a crafting system then fail to implement anything that is useful beyond level 49. The first f'ing rule of any mmo is that the majority of content needs to be for level capped players but then to completely **** over the crafting community? seriously?

_Flin_'s Avatar


_Flin_
01.05.2012 , 09:13 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Belkiratwo View Post
Angry Rant: Why the hell would you waste developer hours on a crafting system then fail to implement anything that is useful beyond level 49. The first f'ing rule of any mmo is that the majority of content needs to be for level capped players but then to completely **** over the crafting community? seriously?
It is there. It is in the game. The items exist (at least the modifications etc.). (EDIT: They are just not implemented)

Without any info, I'd blame it on Marketing.

I think there is nothing that couldn't be fixed with limited schematics that allow only a limited number of items to be created.

chton's Avatar


chton
01.05.2012 , 09:18 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Pandabutt View Post
The goal is to bring craftng on par with PvP and Raid gear... or at the very least ABOVE VENDOR.

Also, by the same logic, why can't you ever see if from the other perspective?

If Crafting, PvP, and Raid all produced the same quality gear players would have an actual choice as to which route to take rather than feeling forced to get their gear a certain way. Crafting may not require "skill" but it does require time and effort, a lot of it. It DESERVES to be rewarded. We sink millions upon millions of credits into our crafts to get sub-par gear, that is hardly a fair trade off, in-fact we are getting cheated.

You want your raid or pvp gear that you worked oh so hard for to be top notch while the crafters who slave day after day trying to get those top notch schematics end result with something that can't even come remotely close to matching you. Who's the real one asking to be rewarded for doing next to nothing?

Not to mention, those very same crafters have to run your raids over and over again to get the rare BoP materials they need for their top of the line crafted gear. Clearly they are putting a hell of a lot more effort into getting their gear than you are. Their effort should be rewarded.
So again lets reward crafters and everyone in their guild correct? I don't know maybe it's because I come from a large well organized guild. If it can be crafted we will craft it and then everyone in our guild will have one once they hit the requisite level. this destroys the incentive to actually do anything as what it there to gain if some one can make it for you. I hate to break it to some of you people but even if you can craft good stuff , most of us in quality guilds will never need to buy it from you.
But seriously this isn't SWG, if you miss that type of crafting that destroyed any reason to loot anything go back and play it. From the "huge" numbers of people touting that system it must be an overwhelming success. I mean it's got an unbeatable license and awesome crafting and social play in a huge sand box world. They must be opening new servers all the time. Wait... what is that you're telling me, it was a bomb from the start and bled money for years until they they mercifully pulled the plug... (btw I played it from launch to NGE) well then move on to the other AAA MMOs with sandbox play and deep crafting... there must be a huge number based on these forums telling me how we need all those functions. Good luck finding one.

Medianoche's Avatar


Medianoche
01.05.2012 , 09:19 AM | #26
From a PvPer point of view, the top level quality ranking should be like:

PVP Gear (Best)
Raid Gear
Random drops
Craft Gear (Special Recipes from Raids)
Craft Gear
Vendor Gear (Worst)


From a PvEer point of view:

Raid Gear ( Best )
Craft Gear ( Special Recipes from Raids )
PvP Gear
Craft Gear
Random drops
Vendor Gear ( Worst ).




In my opinion the top-noch equipment MUST be Raid Gear. Raids/Ops require preparation and effort. They must be the best, for the BEST.
Followed closely by Crafted Gear with high-end recipes. To complete your sets while rideing.
PvP Gear comes in third place, because it can be FARMED and doesn't really require HABILITY. Just Farming.
Rest is ****.

_Flin_'s Avatar


_Flin_
01.05.2012 , 09:34 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Medianoche View Post
In my opinion the top-noch equipment MUST be Raid Gear. Raids/Ops require preparation and effort. They must be the best, for the BEST.
Followed closely by Crafted Gear with high-end recipes. To complete your sets while rideing.
PvP Gear comes in third place, because it can be FARMED and doesn't really require HABILITY. Just Farming.
Rest is ****.
Sorry, this is utter bull.
Top notch PVE gear should come from raids/hardmodes/whatever.
Top notch PvP gear should come from PvP.
There is no reason at all that there can't be top notch other gear coming from crafting. Be it social, be it companions, be it soloing, be it crafting equipment.

Which decent Raider or PvPer would ever wear items that have +presence? Noone.

So there is no reason not to have some gear that isn't very good neither for raiding nor for PvP, but still is on par with it item level wise.

_Flin_'s Avatar


_Flin_
01.05.2012 , 09:38 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by chton View Post
So again lets reward crafters and everyone in their guild correct?
You are actually the only person talking about guilds. How could BoP items possibly benefit anyone except the crafter himself?

And, Following your logic, why not turn off crafting at all? Instead of having it and being useless? If it is something for loser MMOs that noone plays anyway, why bother?

Pandabutt's Avatar


Pandabutt
01.05.2012 , 09:39 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by chton View Post
So again lets reward crafters and everyone in their guild correct? I don't know maybe it's because I come from a large well organized guild. If it can be crafted we will craft it and then everyone in our guild will have one once they hit the requisite level. this destroys the incentive to actually do anything as what it there to gain if some one can make it for you. I hate to break it to some of you people but even if you can craft good stuff , most of us in quality guilds will never need to buy it from you.
But seriously this isn't SWG, if you miss that type of crafting that destroyed any reason to loot anything go back and play it. From the "huge" numbers of people touting that system it must be an overwhelming success. I mean it's got an unbeatable license and awesome crafting and social play in a huge sand box world. They must be opening new servers all the time. Wait... what is that you're telling me, it was a bomb from the start and bled money for years until they they mercifully pulled the plug... (btw I played it from launch to NGE) well then move on to the other AAA MMOs with sandbox play and deep crafting... there must be a huge number based on these forums telling me how we need all those functions. Good luck finding one.
Will you stop and listen for once?

The MAIN ISSUE HERE is that the best crafted gear is worse than the vendor gear. If we can at least get that fixed, then we won't be so pissed about the way things are.

However, that doesn't excuse the fact that you are trying to say raiders put more work into getting their gear than crafters ever will when the fact is crafters do indeed put more work into it. They have to grind the skill up to 400, spend countless hours trying to obtain that one schematic for each piece, sink millions upon millions of credits into the skill, then once that's all said and done they have to run those very same raids your so proud of countless times to get all the BoP mats they need.

You say there would be no need to do the other content? BULL! Your crafters in your guild would still need to run the raids to get the materials to make gear for your other members. As a result, you'll still be running those raids with your guild a ton, and every time you have another member needing top of the line gear you're running it again so your crafter can get the materials.

And if the stats are identical, then it comes down to asthetics. Maybe you want the raid gear for it's looks, maybe you want some crafted gear for it's looks, or maybe you want some incredibly rare world boss drop item for it's looks.

You can't tell me that putting crafted gear on par with raid and pvp gear will kill the game. It won't, we arn't asking for it to be better than pvp and raid, we are asking for it to be on par with them.

Seriously, listen to what is actually being said.

Dorlomin's Avatar


Dorlomin
01.05.2012 , 09:39 AM | #30
The problem to me isn't so much that what you craft at 400/50 is largely useless (most games that's the case honestly), it's more the lack of a "bonus" of some sort for it being at that level. Biochem has it's obvious bonuses, Cybertech has a mount you can make and some bombs, but that's really about it.

The bonuses for all the crafting professions need to be worth the hassle of leveling them, or nobody will. And currently for really all of the crafting professions, there is no real incentive to level any of them. It can really even be argued that skipping Biochem is viable if you have slicing maxed as it still makes money like crazy. Without the crafting professions being utilized by a majority of the playerbase, the economy will utterly tank because everyone will just gather and not be able to give what they gathered away, much less sell any of it.

Personally I'd like to see them do to crafting what Blizzard did to the crafting in WoW as far as bonuses go, as that creates incentive for the min/max'ers to level it as well as everyone else just for a bonus. I've never been a big fan of the "having to raid to get the patterns/mats" (and I've been a longtime raider). Raid/PVP gear should be better than whats crafted, but you should get a bonus of some sort for knowing how to improve it (or something along those lines).

The game is only officially a couple weeks old, and things are going to get adjusted in the coming weeks I'm sure. I would assume they have a running list of "game balance" issues to be looked at/resolved, I'm just hoping this at the top of that list.

Edit: I'm not 50 yet and haven't touched a crafting profession because of the current implementation, but if it's really true that simple to obtain vendor gear is better than anything crafted, then yes that needs to be fixed as well.