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8/16 man Operation difference and bonus?

Belwing's Avatar


Belwing
01.04.2012 , 08:17 AM | #1
Hello guys and girls.
Tryed to find topic about it, but i did not. What is the bonus for going in operation in 16 man raid compare to 8 man? We did both and did not find any edge, advantage or anything.

Drops are 2x more yes, but so are people in raid. And difficulty are much bigger in 16 then in 8 - specialy at 3rd encounter. Are there some better drops? Because i did not notice it.

It is worth it try to clear Operations in 16? Is there some edge i do not see?
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Nylyan's Avatar


Nylyan
01.04.2012 , 08:39 AM | #2
Honestly, the 16man trash is harder than most 8man Hardmode bosses, it's quite pathetic really.
The first boss in 16 man 1shots people left and right, while the 8man HM version of it is soakable.

But no, you don't get anything better, just more loot to make up for the extra players, it's really not worth the effort.

I think I spent more money on repair costs on trash yesterday than I ever did in 8man HM.(This includes bosses)

snowmon's Avatar


snowmon
01.04.2012 , 10:16 AM | #3
i was going to start a topic about this tbh,

last night our guild had a go at 16man, current progress is 4/5 hardmode in 8man

what is the deal with the trash? why is there such a difference in the mobs, not just the usual more health and damage that is what i would expect, but they have even change the type of mob, so instead of being elite in 8man and CCable its now champion and not CCable, and same with normal mob in 8man its now elite in 16, this is a joke, its not a difficulty change its just another 8 people in the raid.

imo the only difference u should be seeing between 8 -16man raiding is health pools and damage, by all means change the type of mobs for different difficulty.

AND SORT THE DAM LOOT OUT!!!! arg...

as it currently stands there is no reason what so ever to even bother doing 16man, its a joke.
lvl 55 PT DPS, ToFN Server

Penguinman's Avatar


Penguinman
01.04.2012 , 10:38 AM | #4
I agree with the two people above me. My guild cleared 8 man normal in a day last week. We got more people, most of us geared up quite a bit from hard mode FPs, and we're just getting stomped by some of the trash on 16.

You can really start to tell a difference once you get to the ancient pylons boss fight. The adds that spawn are just insane. If you hit them just once while their shield is up then you either flat out die, or have next to no health. It wasn't even remotely that hard on 8 man.
Trist Beoulve the Unyielding.

Sedition

Anthya's Avatar


Anthya
01.04.2012 , 11:00 AM | #5
TBH, I think this is a case of (especially with the 3rd boss encounter example given by the poster just above me) 8 man being terribly undertuned.

While I don't think normal modes should be ballbreakingly hard, I also don't have a problem with it being difficult.

8 man, however, outside of Soa and Bonethrasher hard/nightmare, is an absolute joke.

16 man actually feels like an appropriate challenge. Maybe a little too high on a couple of encounters due to a couple of bugged abilities, but nothing insurmountable.

16 man 3rd boss EV, for example. You screw up and hit Force Barrier (Which is interruptable, for the record.. and not hard to interrupt, either), you die. That's good. It's a simple awareness/retard check. I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but if your people are failing at this, they need their eyes checked. It's not hard to see the SHIELD GLOW around the mob AND the debuff on the bar, and that's if you don't interrupt in the first place..

On 8 man, we've had 2 people successfully duo a Pylon.. on hard mode. Yes, that includes the Acklay, and yes it includes rotating them for the panel debuff. Mobs having 5k HP on 8 man is absolutely laughable.



But the core issue of 8 vs 16 rewards.. well, yeah, a lot of folks won't find 16 man worth doing because it is a leap up in difficulty for only double the amount of loot with no clear increase in quality. But frankly, that's a problem with balancing more than anything else.
If 8 man was balanced more appropriately (outside of Soa/Bonethrasher Hard/Nightmare) in relation to 16 man, then more people would be willing to deal with 16 man.
The majority of folks will take the path of least resistance. That is, as it stands now, 8 man by a significant margin. Stupidly significant, really.

snowmon's Avatar


snowmon
01.04.2012 , 11:13 AM | #6
I agree with you, its just the changing of mobs types that shouldn't be happening, we got to the 3rd boss last night and figured out it was the Guardians shield 1 shotting people, unfortunately we still don't have a full guild run so was pugging people to fill it, it was more a test than anything but if the mobs where the same types of mobs it would be more balanced imo, its just the fact you cant CC most the mobs you need to cause they are champions and not elites now.

also the time between the packs of 3 at the pylons is not very forgiving, if this was hardmode or even nightmare i would understand...but normal...come on lol
lvl 55 PT DPS, ToFN Server

Nylyan's Avatar


Nylyan
01.04.2012 , 11:26 AM | #7
The only boss so far that I really find to be annoying in 16 man though, is indeed the first one.
The 3rd one was actually a challange and fun in 16 man, and it felt like we actually earned the loot for once.
But the first boss is just weird, his random 1shots even through people with 17-18k HP and shields on is NOT funny.

The trash is also quite stupid, fair enough it's doable, but it's still annoying that the trash is harder than most bosses.

Penguinman's Avatar


Penguinman
01.04.2012 , 11:39 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Anthya View Post

16 man 3rd boss EV, for example. You screw up and hit Force Barrier (Which is interruptable, for the record.. and not hard to interrupt, either), you die. That's good. It's a simple awareness/retard check. I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but if your people are failing at this, they need their eyes checked. It's not hard to see the SHIELD GLOW around the mob AND the debuff on the bar, and that's if you don't interrupt in the first place..
Some of our people were failing at this in the beginning. It's a little difficult to know exactly what's happening since there aren't any combat logs to tell you what just kicked your face in for 20k. After a couple attempts we figured out "Hey...I take eff loads of damage if I hit this guy." "Hey...I take eff loads of damage if I hit this guy...only when this shield is up!"

Once we figured that out it wasn't too terribly bad, but you still have to deal with all the other things that are being brought up in this thread. On 8 man everything has so little health that your dps one shots the things that put up the shields so you never really have to worry about it.
Trist Beoulve the Unyielding.

Sedition